TRUMP 2020!

[Leo the Conqueror]

Oh Sorry, i actually was thinking you were just stirring the pot. Being a progressive (socialist) doesn't mean you have to follow every failed idea blindly, you can have logic too.

And remember, when your mentors are brainwashing you, er i mean teaching you... if those ideas that seem new to you, but have been around for a century, really worked and were that easy, everyone would already be doing it.

Lastly, a murder brought the protests, boredom and opportunists brought the riots, and elitists brought these stupid changes that have drove up crime recently in these cities and led to even more black deaths... where are the protests for those killings?

Lol your logic is flawed but ok. There have been protests here in Minneapolis for the more recent killings. Also people tell me that my ideas are stupid all the time. If they didn't then how progressive would I really be?

I will never understand how intentional ignorance became a virtue. Somehow its like people feel they need to out shock each other with how far they are willing to go to destroy everything lol. Knowing plenty of progressives myself, i can assure you, one does not need to be sophomoric to be liberal, your feet can still be on the ground. Pipe dreams dont make change, outrageous claims dont make change, real ideas, based in reality, that benefit the most people makes change.

Other democrats seem to like my ideas, so maybe you just are disagreeing to disagree. I'll never know and we will probably always disagree. I do know this: you can ask me virtually any question about how I would make an idea work and I can give you a realistic answer. Republicans might not like it, but it would work. Go ahead, ask me.

[Meliva]

If we decide to open our borders, how do you propose we keep folks from smuggling drugs and other items into our country?

[Leo the Conqueror]

If we decide to open our borders, how do you propose we keep folks from smuggling drugs and other items into our country?

Thanks for asking

The same way we keep them from smuggling drugs and other items in when they enter the country right now. Think of airport security. There are metal and bomb detectors and X-ray machines for their luggage. I don't think that immigrants are really more likely to smuggle drugs into the country then Americans re-entering are. It's interesting that that's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of open borders. You also just have to use the "innocent until proven guilty" rule. You shouldn't suspect that they are smuggling unless you have evidence. That's why normal scans are fine. We should trust them to not brake the law just as much as a US-born citizen.

[Meliva]

You shouldn't trust anyone not to break a law, people are far from trustworthy. So with basic scans you might be able to keep certain items out, well what happens if someone decides to come over, kill/rape/steal someone/something, then quickly go back to the other side before anything can be done? What if someone decides to smuggle people? Wouldn't be hard for someone to hop over to the other side, grab a young child, perhaps baby and then hop back over? Not like the folks at the border would stop them-I mean, it's not illegal to cross with a baby, and they can just claim it's theirs.

[Leo the Conqueror]

You shouldn't trust anyone not to break a law, people are far from trustworthy. So with basic scans you might be able to keep certain items out, well what happens if someone decides to come over, kill/rape/steal someone/something, then quickly go back to the other side before anything can be done? What if someone decides to smuggle people? Wouldn't be hard for someone to hop over to the other side, grab a young child, perhaps baby and then hop back over? Not like the folks at the border would stop them-I mean, it's not illegal to cross with a baby, and they can just claim it's theirs.

It's not literally an open border. There are still guards and everything, just without all the applying for citizenship stuff.

[Meliva]

So, you are not proposing we open our borders, just allow anyone who isn't a citizen to come over? Alright, so does that mean that we no longer check someone's background before they enter? So long as they enter without any weapons or contraband we just let them in? Because again, what would stop a pedophile from crossing over, having their way with a couple kids, and then just going home?

Or what happens if so many people come over, that citizens start losing jobs to the non-citizen immigrants? There are probably millions upon millions of folks who would love to come over, and live and work here, but we can not support all those people, on top of our own. Just like with any government, it's first concern should be the well being of their own citizens FIRST, everyone else second. Just like I would put my family first, over friends.

Edit-Or what about our minimum wage laws? Businesses could employ non citizens for cheap, and just fire off citizen workers when possible to save money. Since these folks are not citizens, they do not have the same protections a citizen would. There's a reason why we don't simply open our borders, or just allow any non-citizen to come over-it's a bad idea.

[The Lamb]

Ahhh see blue, im an Independent being forced to only vote republican because of all these types of ideals. One thing I always teach my employees, its very easy to to act like a hero and fix any problem in the world, the real issue is fixing the problem(s) that will come from your fix before you implement the fix.
Examples:
1. Everyone goes organic food - Going organic (the way it always was) would require 2.5 earths size of arable land just to feed the current population and that means all forests, buildings, roads that are in arable areas would need to be leveled for planting. BTW, GMO is just a quicker way of doing selective breading. Fuji apples, dogs, turkeys, all examples of people genetically modifying things over time .

2. Save the forests from harvesting - Well not if you go organic, all will need to be cleared for farming, paper tree farms will go out of business, wild fires increase to a rate of before humans, cant build homes with dimensional lumber so you need more mining for metals and more chemical waists, electricity, water... etc.

3. Everyone drives electric cars - More power plants must be built, these plant pollute 24/7 vrs just when driving cars = more pollution, cost of electricity goes up to pay for these new plants, transmission wires, transformer stations, no one wants a new power plant in their back yard.

4. Open Boarders - Welfare and health system gets over burdened (infinite labor force, finite amount of jobs, you know basic supply and demand) , people think "tax the rich". Rich dont have enough to fill gap then middle class must be taxed, middle class dont have enough to fill the gap tax the poor. BTW, not a great idea to over tax the most mobile group in the world, they will just leave, ask NY meanwhile, people are loosing their homes because of large tax rate and cant afford mortgages anymore and so on...

5. Everyone gets a equal stake in profits - You wont find entrepreneurs willing to buy the PPE (power plant and equipment), take out the loans, create the business model, pay the insurance and hold all the risk, thus no new business growth, no new jobs, unless govt intervenes and takes over means of production, now you must have a police state to ensure things are being done correctly. I know, i know, the age old argument, everyone say it with me "Socialism works, no one in history has done it right yet thats all"... ahhhhhhh i love that one.

Anyways, i can keep going. If you really want to go beyond just being a "joiner", than dont just regurgitate the same nonsense that hasnt worked since the 10 planks were written and professors started passing as their own ideas, dont just spout off a "cure" because its just that easy, be a thinker, learn economics, ask yourself why none of these ideas have come to fruition and solve the problems that these "fixes" cause. Then you will have an argument that can stand on its own merit not just propaganda to turn the US into Venezuela.

[Meliva]

Exactly, when you want to change something or implement an idea you need to carefully examine it and think of any possible consequences. It's really easy to solve one problem, while making two new ones. For example, I know a SUPER simple way to solve homelessness. Just make it legal for anyone who is homeless to knock on a door, ask to crash for the night, and that person HAS to let them sleep there.

Oh, but now there's a MASSIVE increase in theft, rape, and murder. Hmm. Well at least homeless folks have a home to sleep in now.

[Lachlan]

wow what is this lol, I can sense the stupidity in some cases of what people are saying here... And why did this go from trump to coronavirus then refugees or something and now borders

[Meliva]

wow what is this lol, I can sense the stupidity in some cases of what people are saying here... And why did this go from trump to coronavirus then refugees or something and now borders

It probably changed due to the fact that not everyone approves of how Trump is handling those issues. Besides, conversations change over time, so it's not like it's a strange that the topic drifted into other subjects over time.