[Implemented] Treasures and Banks

[Sir Henry Morgan]

As far as burying treasure, I concur with Hawk - due to the amount of turns, my buried treasure would be limited, probably to a grub stake I could use to rebuild again if necessary. While not much,yet, if found by a new player, it would be ample to get them off to a good start. Most of my immediate reserve I would put in a bank - there would be more security in trusting one individual with my money than the odds of all the treasure hunters happening upon my gold. And if there is more than one bank, I would be spreading the risk of not losing it all to a scurvy back-biting financier.

I would definitely play the banker role, over melting down gold coin into bars - most likely a banker could speculate the gold bars without ownership!The biggest draw for me as a banker is the "alliance of trust" in all endeavors of his depositors and borrowers, regardless of how mundane or nefarious they may be.

Hawk does bring up a good point - depending upon how deposits and withdraws were handled would make a difference on its usefulness. To be in the same port as the hideout building would reveal more than a banker may be willing to reveal. If it cost too many turns, the only advantage to a bank over burying your treasure would be
1) the amount of turns used;
2) if the bank paid any interest upon deposits, and;
3) knowing who has your money if it disappears.

[Captain Jack]

For treasures:
--=-=-==---=---===---

How about
It costs 20 turns to bury ANY amount of gold, as a standard fee.
2 turns to un-bury any amount of gold.
You can bury / un bury part of the treasure at any given time.
You can add more turns to "hide it better" at any given time.

A player to find ANY part of your treasure, will require at LEAST double your turns.
A player will be able to find part of your treasure, based on the turns he invest.

An overall treasure leaderboard will be created, that will show Top 10 treasures. For example it will show:

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Stories speak of unspoken wealth that await ambitious explorers... Here is the list of the most lucrative treasures as the stories tell..

Top 10 Treasures
1.Sir Henry Morgan
2.Skyhawk
3.Zombie Jesus
etc...


Generally, this should be a good way for an advanced player to hide his treasure and use the feature as a turns sinker. Warehouses will still be used as warchest holders, due to gold resource, but still this feature might prove a better option as it involves no gold spending. Warehouses can get pretty expensive at large sizes and you still may need them for other purposes than storing your warchest.

For banks
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Banks should not be a turn feature. Perhaps we will put 2 turns for every transaction though, to keep transactions reasonable. It is only reasonable after all.

[Captain Jack]

Here is the earlier public chat log for everyone to comment on the Treasure idea.

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Me:  anyway, have you checked any of the discussion regarding the treasure hunt feature?
Xepshunall:  Contacted Zombi Jesus and Captain Da Vinci.
Captain Da Vinci has joined the chatroom
Me:  ok,thank you. I have Zombie Jesus in my list too, he seems to have added me in his friendlist.
Xepshunall:  Really liked seeing the gold resource listed as potential cargo when viewing a specific ship.
Me:  we should create a hack so that administrator can invite all online users
Me:  Hi Captain Da Vinci
Xepshunall:  Was wondering if it shows up elsewhere.
Me:  we have scored a good progress already
Me:  gold resource is completed
Captain:  Hi Admin and everyone
Captain:  Hey X
Me:  what needs to be done, is the resource to show up
Me:  hideout is halfway done
Me:  treasure hunt will take priority after all, moving the game to version 1.0
Me:  so hideout + gold resource can move it to 1.1
Me:  this should happen this week if we continue in the same pace
Xepshunall:  This conversation box is too small. Needs to be adjusted to fit 600 pixel high screen.
Me:  click on popout
Me:  then make it as big as you prefer
juicylettuce has joined the chatroom
Me:  Hi juicylettuce
juicylettuce:  hello
Me:  I was hoping skyhawk will turn in as well, he has interesting opinions on the forum
juicylettuce:  i have to say the nation feature is awesome
juicylettuce:  the devs did a really good job
Me:  I am glad you like it. It may need some balancing
Me:  and we will need to decide nation control feature soon
Me:  we want to implement all features shown here: http://www.piratesglor...t=406
Me:  as soon as possible
Me:  in the best way possible
Me:  anyone that has skyhawk on his list? just send him an invite? Even if he appears offline.
Me:  use the link at the top right,
juicylettuce:  i invited him
Me:  great
Me:  so we can start anyway
Me:  you can ask any questions you like
Skyhawk has joined the chatroom
Me:  but I would also like to hear your thoughts on the treasure hunt feature
Skyhawk:  wow hey
Me:  welcome skyhawk
Admiral Blackpants has joined the chatroom
Me:  great, another person I wanted in
Me:  hi admiral blackpants
Me:  If achilies also comes, it will surpass my expectations
Admiral:  good morning
Me:  but we should start, nonetheless
Admiral:  he is usually at work at this time
Me:  it is okay then
Me:  I just noted a lot of people who could say some things on the online list
Skyhawk:  cool nice to chat in person
juicylettuce:  i agree
Me:  so,in case you cannot read chat history up to that point...
Me:  You can ask any questions you like
Me:  and I would like to hear your thoughts in the treasure hunt feature
Me:  how would you picture it to be best
Skyhawk:  I just need a way to make a profit lol
Skyhawk:  don't really like a turn cost though
Me:  treasure hunt should not be a way to make profit, for large players
Me:  large players should use it as a way to store gold
Me:  then small players, could use it to gain some treasure
Admiral:  you beat me to it
Xepshunall:  Sorry, no patience for the pace of this at this size. Will read later and see if I can answer or ask useful things in forum.
Me:  you agree with this, admiral?
Admiral:  yes
Me:  sure, whatever fits anyone best
Admiral:  I also agree with a high turn cost
Me:  we are looking to achieve a turns sinker
Me:  generally, we want to add turn features
Skyhawk:  well what if it was 10 turns to store any amount of gold but alot of turns to retreive it?
Me:  especially for the advanced players
Me:  this is something along my latest proposal,skyhawk
Me:  20 turns to store any amount of gold coins
Me:  about 5 to retrieve any amount
Me:  half if it is gold bars
Me:  you can store any amount anytime, for the same turns fee
Me:  and retrieve any amount any time for the same turns fee
Me:  you could add tuyrns anytime to hide it better
Me:  for example
Me:  lets say that today, you have no time to play
Me:  but you still have 200 turns
juicylettuce:  with a big grid at every port and a place you can bury treasure. Maybe there would be one turn for one percent treasure bonus, 2 turns for 2 percent treasure bonus. Once a player click on the spot that has treasure. The player that buried it has 3 days to move his treasure
Me:  right now, there is nothing as rewarding for an advanced player, to use his turns in bulk
Me:  you would prefer a visible grid where you know where it is placed
Me:  ?
juicylettuce:  i am a slow typer as you can plainly see
juicylettuce:  yes
Me:  it is okay, I will try to communicate with anyone, no matter how slow you were to reply
juicylettuce:  with numbers where you can mark it and remember where you put it
Me:  but this could make it easier for someone to find it, if he gets lucky
Admiral:  Yes I think to to uncover another players gold should cost a boatload of turns
Skyhawk:  would be nice to be able to give the cordinants to other players though
Me:  it must cost at least double, with current design at hand
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Admiral:  for your own maybe half of what you put in
Skyhawk:  or have a guild stash
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Me:  skyhawk,this could lead to un controlable milking, we can't monitor this
Zombie Jesus has joined the chatroom
Zombie:  helo?
Me:  banks will facilitate gold coins passing ot other players
Admiral:  I agree that there should be a guild advantage to it
Me:  hi Zombie Jesus
juicylettuce:  so how will we uncover the treasure we buried?
Me:  let me explain it then
Me:  let's say you are in Toruga
Me:  Tortuga
Me:  You will click on your gold count, which will take you to the treasury page
Zombie:  milking is fundamentally different then sharing treasure within a guild...
Me:  there will be a link there, to take you to the treasure hunt in the vicinity of Tortuga
Me:  so, you will get an overview of top trerasures (listing by name only)
Xepshunall:  Guild dues may prove useful.
Me:  it will be an overall list, taking in mind all buried treasures
Me:  then you will have 3 options
Me:  or 4
Me:  1.Bury Treasure
Me:  2.Un-bury Treasure
Me:  3.Hide treasure better
Me:  4.Hunt treasure
Me:  all options will be relative to the port you are in, lets say tortuga
juicylettuce:  How does hide treasure better work?
Me:  I will explain
Zombie:  any system of guild dues is dangerous, and likely to be bad for the game
Me:  dues? what this means?
Skyhawk:  Tax I think
Me:  first 3 options, will lead you to a page where you will manage the treasure in this port
Zombie:  be in a guild, you have to pay the guildmaster
Zombie:  blackpants does it with presents right now
Me:  guild dues are a good idea
Me:  it gives more options so why not
juicylettuce:  lol
Me:  people can choose if they want to do this or not
Skyhawk:  I agree
Admiral:  this is not the place for this guys
Me:  so, back on the proposed treasure feature
Zombie:  sorry, this is 2 different conversations.... the treasure hiding concept seems healthy as is
Me:  explaining the options in detail now
Me:  at option 1) You will get to choose the amount of gold to store and how much excess turns you want to add
Me:  you will be able to store turns in a battery
Me:  before spending them for the burying
Me:  which means you will be able to put more than 600 which is the current max on-onstance
Skyhawk:  smart!!
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Admiral:  good for smaller players
Me:  of course a player can already raise with credits this to whatever number he wants but I don't think any has ever done this as it includes the loss of generated turns (useful if you are going to war though)_
Zombie:  the hiding getup, even the battery idea sounds good.
Me:  but for the treasure hunt, he will just charge the battery
Me:  putting as many turns he wants there
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Zombie:  but i guess my only suggestion would be to move slowly
Me:  then, when he is ready he will just bury it
Me:  then the gold will be removed from treasury and end up buried
Zombie:  so u dont find a mistake in the idea after a serious harm happens
Me:  he may unbury it with few turns
Me:  or hide it better (sink more turns in it)
Me:  the more turns one has used, the harder to be foiund gby anothere
Me:  another*
Skyhawk:  will the size of the treasure be taken into account?
Me:  no, eventually no
Me:  it will only matter
Me:  at the hunt oprocesss
Admiral:  I think there should also be maybe "house treasure" meaning there is treasure that doesn't belong to any player but system buried
Me:  process
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Zombie:  wuts gonna decide whose treasure i find
Me:  here is a public formula
Me:  let's say, you bury 1million gold
Me:  or better say a realistic number
Zombie:  if pandah and blackpants and Xep all have the same sized equally well hidden treasure
Zombie:  which one do i find
Me:  let's say that you bury 10 millions ( atotla of 10m per port equals 210m in total, a huge warchest)
Admiral:  goes by coordinates
Me:  i will respond
Me:  hear my example first though
Me:  let'ss say you bury 10millions with excess 100 turns + 20 you spent
Zombie:  =)
Me:  for anyone to even get a chance on your treasure, he will must devote 200 turns in ONE go
Me:  this example will be the manual for the feature,most probably, if it goes this way
Me:  this way, targets will be excluded
Zombie:  im sure it makes sense to ya'll, but looking at that example for the first time. it's confusing
Me:  if the hunter devotes 50 turns
Me:  then he won't get a chance to discover your treasure at all
Me:  againm, let ne start over the example then
Skyhawk:  I got it lol
Me:  Skyhawk decides it is about tie he buries his treasure
Me:  he goes to Tortuga
Me:  and says, I will bury 10 millions!
Zombie:  with u so far =p
Me:  To bury it, the game asks him for 20 turns.
Me:  But he wants to secure his shiny treasure
Me:  so he decides to spend 100 turns in excess to hide it better,
Me:  the next day, he thinks, he needs to bury it better, so he gives another 100 turns
Me:  so now, Skyhawk's treasure in Tortuga, consists of 10millions
Me:  and 200 turns
Zombie:  so now he has spent 220 turns total
Zombie:  yes?
Me:  yes
Me:  but 200 in excess
Me:  which are the difficulty factor
Zombie:  but the treasure has 200 turns of extra
Me:  for somneone who will attempt to find it
Me:  indeed
Zombie:  and the extra goes into deciding how hard it is to find
Me:  indeed
Me:  let's say now that zombie jesus wants his treasure
Admiral:  makes sense
Me:  he thinks that Tortuga is a good spot to search for treasures
Me:  so he sails there on his mighty sloop
Zombie:  man o war
Me:  and gets outside ready to search for treasure!
Me:  got one already?
juicylettuce has joined the chatroom
Me:  so, at first, he is so drunk from rum
Admiral:  likely
Me:  that he only invests 35 turns for the hunt
Zombie:  quiet you
Me:  the feature will then do as follows
Me:  he will ignore skyhawks treasure as the turns are a meagre in compare to skyhawk's hiding efford
Me:  then the feature will analyze complete treasure savings in this port
Me:  and will roll a chance
Zombie:  so im now only digging for 35 turns or less treasures?
Me:  giving from nothing up to a % of total treasure in island in comparison to turns given
Me:  the player will get to know the where abouts of the best treasure sotred in the island
Me:  as well as the total treasure stored
Blackd0g has joined the chatroom
Me:  based on his findings
Me:  and after he has had several goes on small turns
Me:  if the turns are considerable, it will always return some NPC treasure, if no player treasure is found
Zombie:  that sentence there is gonna be tricky to explain to newcomers
Admiral:  perfect
Me:  and it will tell you it was Blackbeard's treasure for example, to keep it roleplaying nice
Me:  it won't be explained
Me:  the feature itself will explain this to you
Me:  as you play the feature
Me:  generally, at least double the turns will be needed to consider a player treasure
Admiral:  will there be a cap to the number of turns you can sink into a burial
Me:  but still, you will not earn it
Me:  no
Me:  there will be a battery again
Me:  so let's continue our example with Zombie and Skyhawk
Me:  Zombie learns in the tavern that Skyhawk has a good treasure buried in Tortuga
Me:  so he makes it purpose of his life not to leave tortuga until he finds this treasure!
Skyhawk:  I need a better crew >_< .... blabber mouths
Me:  early in the next morning he starts working -no rum this time
Me:  so at first day he sinks 180 turns
Me:  and 180 turns at the second day
Me:  eager as he is, he attemtps to find his treasure with his 360 turns
Me:  now the game engine again will not consider skyhawk's treasure as 360 turns are less than 400 (the double of 200)
Me:  fustrated a lot, zombie jesus prepares his final plan
Skyhawk: 
Me:  so he works 5 days in a row
Me:  amassing 900 turns
Me:  and he sets forth to find the treasure
Me:  now, engine will take skyhawk's treasure in consideration
Me:  if more than one treasures are eligible, all will be selected
Me:  then chances will occur. The engine will sort treasures in relation to better hidden (per amount)
Zombie:  does that mean i get to pick which one i capture
Me:  and higher output (per amount/trns invested)
Me:  generally it is hard to explain the details of the formula plus the formula is not ready yet
Me:  but it will take a lot of variables in mind
Me:  and it will also give a generous % that the treasure will be NPC again
Me:  although the output will be greater this time
Me:  let's say however, for the sake of our example, that skyhawk's treasure is selected.
Me:  How many he will lose?
Me:  or should lose
Me:  your turn now
Zombie:  wut im getting at is that it would be very frusterating to be digging for sky's treasure, but find my buddy blackpants treasure instead cuz it's got the same number of turns on it
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Skyhawk:  So how much gold I should lose?
Me:  in this case, you weill be able to be kind and return it to him
Me:  yes
Me:  how much, the engine selected you
mohammed has joined the chatroom
Me:  and we now must decide what you lose
Admiral:  doubt it
Zombie:  right
Zombie:  but that's pretty intense
Admiral:  so you wouldn't lose your entire treasure that you buried
Captain:  wait, he can return the gold?
mohammed:  hi everyone
Zombie:  if i was digging for Sky but found BP instead
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Me:  note that the actual poissibility to have your treasure found, will be meagre
Zombie:  that's a huge number of wasted turns
Skyhawk:  Well I think a % would be more rewarding than a set amount
Me:  its a risk for the treasure hunter
Me:  we are thinking
Me:  to make things easier for you
Me:  to play it again with number of turns used versus number of turns spent
Me:  to make it safer for the one that buries the treasure
Admiral:  so once you"dig" you lose all those turns
Me:  make it like 10 times greater in order to take whole treasure
Zombie:  A percentage reward instead of a flat limit would at least reward you for your investment.
Me:  so now that it is 2.5 times greater
mohammed:  any ideas about npc treasures how much well they have
Me:  he should take 25%
Skyhawk:  I say 25% of a stash
Me:  aka 2.5millions gold
Skyhawk:  cool lol
Zombie:  If you work that into the overall math
Me:  so gold amount versus turns used to hide will play a factor when deciding which treasure to select
Zombie:  you're looking at 3-5 days worth of turns, and having a low chance of even bringing back 2 million gold
Me:  and if your treasure is selected, turns will play a role on the % looted
Me:  in this example yes
Me:  the maximum treasure allowed will be 100m though
Me:  so maximum turnout from any treasure hunt will be 100m
mohammed:  nice
Zombie:  well realistically, an account can hide 100 mill without burying any treasure
Me:  they can
Me:  but I believe that the treasure hunt will be the safest way after all
Zombie:  so i find it unlikely that the digging efforts are likely to justify themselves
Skyhawk:  I think large treasure should have the same chance of being found as small treasure but just give more
Me:  especially if you are a loner
Me:  it will depend on the amount versus turns spent
Me:  it will generate an index
mohammed:  why burring banks are safer
Me:  and it also create an output index
Me:  banks could potentially be a better choice
Me:  but it releis to the banker
Me:  and all the active banks
Me:  will not be enough to store all players gold
Me:  unless everyone becomes a banker
Admiral:  lol. I just don't see how the small player will have any chance in hades to find a large treasure
Me:  something we will ensure that won't happen
Me:  we want 1 banker every 50 player perhaps
mohammed:  you can have a guild master bank
Zombie:  an account without a bank
Me:  so don't rely much on banks for your mountains of loot
Zombie:  can hide 100 million gold easy
Me:  banks will have many customers
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Me:  and they will have a max allowed balance to store inside
Zombie:  the bank idea sounds much more sound then the hidden treasure idea
Me:  perhaps 100m too
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Zombie:  since in game factors would control the banks behavior
Me:  let me ask everyone a question and I want an answer from everyone
Skyhawk:  Well I think limits would make burying more worth it
Me:  how many times you had full turns but no time to play and you left them intact?
Zombie:  it has happened
Admiral:  rarely
mohammed:  alot of times
Skyhawk:  I build level 1 ships to store my gold when I raid lol
Zombie:  not really that often
Skyhawk:  but it does happen
Blackd0g:  some
Me:  this is where this feature comes
Me:  as a turns sinker, a bulk turns skiner
Me:  generally, it will be safer than it sounds
Me:  unless there are determined treasure hunters
Zombie:  what Sky just described is what i mean... an account can just hide a BUNCH of cash in tools/ships/other
Me:  which of course will get their own rankings
Skyhawk:  I see the point though
Me:  there is no best way though
Me:  shiops can be sunk
Me:  they count in your ship count
Me:  they can be comandeered or leviathan
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mohammed:  so why the sudden chat rooms activity
Skyhawk:  Not mine!
Me:  warehouses are epxensive and can be targeted with official list of demands
Admiral:  lol sky
Zombie:  yes
Zombie:  but the amount of effort required to sink a storagee ship
Me:  and players not always have time to spend their turns
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mohammed:  any idea how good npc treasures are going to be
Skyhawk:  Well I very much like that my enemies will not be able to target my stash
Zombie:  spy then levi that's really expensive
Me:  foot battle will come at some point in the future
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Me:  then any ship outside a fleet will have an excess danger
Zombie:  i wanna footbattle somebody
Me:  ships also cost turns to build
Me:  which are lost when you sell the fleet
Me:  ship*
Skyhawk:  and it would be nice to be doing something like hiding my treasure better when I am busy in RL
Me:  so it also has a turn cost
Zombie:  yes
Me:  that's our objective
Me:  to provide a worthwhile feature
Admiral:  agreed
Rhys Gethin has joined the chatroom
Me:  to sink your turns
Zombie:  what im saying is that the cost of hiding money that way is lower, and will remain prefferable to hiding treasure
Me:  you will be able to bury 1000 gold coins
Rhys:  hello
Me:  and then keep investing turns
Me:  hi Rhys
Me:  zombie, it is up to the choices. On dev side, we will ensure that it will worth the trouble
Zombie:  the hidden treasure option is Very final.
Me:  even if there are determined treasure hunters out there
Me:  hidden treasure?
Rhys:  1000 gold coins or those larger gold bars mentioned on the forum?
Me:  no, I mean
Me:  that you can invest a meagre amount
Me:  or even charge the battery a lot
Me:  before attempting your first burial
Rhys:  ah
mohammed:  so pk wanted thier own bank and put me in charge i make a 0 % interest rate and they all put thier money in it isn't that safer for us
Me:  it would be
Zombie:  i think that idea makes more sense
Me:  but consider that banks will most probably have a cap at 100millions stashed
Me:  100 millions that cannot be touched
Admiral:  that would be a great feature
Skyhawk:  I am completely for it and will most defiantly use it. Banks will just need major restrictions
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Zombie:  especially if hitting the banker gives u a chance to steal the money inside
Me:  the battery usage offers some kind of strategy too
Me:  the spot too
Me:  no
Me:  we won't add this, at least for the time being
Me:  and we won't add this either in the future
Me:  banks will be expensive
Me:  and we want few bankers too
Me:  they need to get what promised
mohammed:  so we make alot banks for pk that well still be safer
Me:  hmm
mohammed:  you need more rules for banks
Admiral:  then therer should be guild wars where you get a % of the other guilds bank if you beat them
Me:  we will ensure banks will be few
Me:  for wars
Me:  check pirate coded wars
Me:  it is a proposed feature
Rhys Gethin has joined the chatroom
Me:  well, all the functions I explained to you
Me:  are the leading design right now
Me:  but we do want your feedback
Me:  and your arguments
Rhys:  hmmm
Me:  i am persisting in your notices so far in purpose
Me:  because we want strong arguments
Me:  and I will sure protect the current design like it is the best ever
Skyhawk:  Well I see no reason to post the name of who has the most treasure stashed in a port
Me:  but this does not mean it is finalk
Me:  not in port
Me:  but in general
Admiral:  that I agree with sky
mohammed:  each guild should have one bank so in wars after losing a percentage of the bank is giving to the winner side
Rhys:  Top ten in the world list like for fame and influence?
Me:  you won't know who has the most gold in port or even if he has gold in this port
Me:  yes, they deserve such a list
Me:  haven't you heard of Blackbeards treasure?
Me:  people will tell stories
Admiral:  if someone has an enemy (apparently like me) then a player will do anything in their power to get taht players treasure
Me:  so there needs to be such a list
Rhys:  nope
Me:  no gold will be mentioned though
Me:  admiral, he will need to find the port though
Rhys:  Why no list of rich folks?
mohammed:  no
Me:  and the treasure might be dividen in more than 1 ports
Me:  how would you know this?
Zombie:  making a mini-game out of hunting legendary treasures
Me:  only the top is shown, in order to prevent constant pouch of gold farming. if you want to farm pouches, you need to do it on one go
Zombie:  would actually be pretty fun, or at least engaging
mohammed:  not mini game how about a quest to find treasures
Me:  mini games get old fast
Skyhawk:  Well if players can stumble on small parts of my treasure that will cause acutal rumors of which port it's in
Zombie:  in terms of what im saying
Zombie:  minigame quest same difference
Rhys:  mini games don't always get old
Me:  but, in accordnace to your proposal, I will share a functionality we have thought
Zombie:  quests, fo sho
Me:  based on dice
Rhys:  it's something more to do besides keeping the girls happy
Me:  picture it like a slot machine
Me:  with 3 rolls
Me:  the better performance on the slot machine
Me:  the better your chances
mohammed:  yes........
Me:  in accordance with your turns
Me:  investment
Me:  you like this?
mohammed:  great
Rhys:  So, the more turns you gamble, the more accurate the location it gives you?
mohammed:  but not well old way is better
Me:  you can gamble turns for the treasure hunt battery perhaps
Me:  select how many turns to play
Admiral:  I think it should be unrelated altoghter
Me:  and then gamble them on the slot machine
Me:  and you get multipliers
Me:  it can be added later too
Skyhawk:  bleh
Admiral:  separate section, maybe a carnival section for prizes
Zombie:  i like carnivals
mohammed:  i never been to carnivals
Rhys:  I don't understand the carnival section for prizes bit, lol
Me:  like a page called carnival
Me:  where mini games will exist?
Zombie:  cotton candy makes mean people into model citizens
Skyhawk:  double bleh
Admiral:  yeah that has nothing to do with the treasure feature
Rhys:  okay
Rhys:  so a section for gambling and minigames
mohammed:  and nothing to do with a pirate game]
Me:  ok, but we could add things that affect your treasure battery (for burial or hunt) at some point
Skyhawk:  that could be a holiday event
Admiral:  fine don't call it carnival
Admiral:  but you know what i meant
Rhys:  well, more gambling than minigames, and that'd be piratey enough
Me:  the game is named Pirates Glory
mohammed:  not carnival maybe underground place for pirates to gample and play
Admiral:  rum party
Me:  but it includes anything happening in that age
Rhys:  needs more piracy
Me:  we want to simulate piracy
Rhys:  less magnates
Me:  and the best way to do this, is to create the factors that used to take palce there
Xepshunall has joined the chatroom
Rhys:  I'm gonna hit up your suggestion forum
Me:  sure
Me:  we want feedback
mohammed:  if you can code the pirate code wars soon that would be even better than the treasure hunt thing
Me:  he more quality feedback we get, the easier our design phase
Me:  which always takes up the most time when implementing a feature
Me:  we are pretty fast in coding
Rhys:  wars are good for guilds, not everybody is in a good
Me:  hideout is half ready
Skyhawk:  well I like to focus on core game play but stuff like that can't hurt
Me:  gold resource is completed
Rhys:  ooh, fast in coding
Tilemaxos has joined the chatroom
Skyhawk:  would be nice to gamble in the tavern and such
Me:  I agree Skyhawl.
Me:  but these are not pressing matter now
mohammed:  great jop admin keep em coming
Me:  they should be added
Me:  the game is big but we want it to be huge with infinite actions you could takwe
Admiral:  sounds good
Me:  if we get some quality feedback
Me:  e will complete the major feature in less than a week from now
mohammed:  yay
Me:  and then we will work on the rest features, as mentioned here: http://www.piratesglor...t=406
Me:  we want to complete them all, as fast as possible, in the best way possible
mohammed:  well it take turns to construct buildings in hideouts
Admiral:  get them right, not fast
Me:  then we got more features, like nation control, tavern activities, rpg extension with your character coming to life with attributes, foot battles, etc
Rhys:  I'll give you plenty of suggestions then, lol
Rhys:  lot of potential in this game
Me:  we want to make it a huge virtual world
mohammed:  and PIRATE CODE WARS GUILD DIPLOMACY
Me:  where ships will be the main element
Rhys Gethin has left the chatroom
Skyhawk:  Well for the Bury treasure feature I have nothing more to add sounds great
Me:  but so many things to do , even with 1 ship
Monkey D. Garp has joined the chatroom
Admiral Blackpants has left the chatroom
Rhys Gethin has joined the chatroom
Skyhawk:  But I think Game News and better ingame communication is the most important feature
Tilemaxos:  We need some kind of economy where prices of goods are affected by events
Monkey D. Garp has left the chatroom
Rhys:  yeah, starting out right now it's kinda just....dead
Admiral Blackpants has joined the chatroom
Rhys:  Game news? Why?
Skyhawk:  even this chat doesn't really promote player interaction
Me:  I want you all to consider our discussion with the treasure hunt and if you would like, post a few things in the forums, in the way your own conclussion worked
Me:  in how it would be best
Me:  tilemaxos, welcome
Rhys:  Trading ought to be changed in my opinion
Admiral:  thank you for the talk. We should do this more often
Skyhawk:  lol ok
Rhys:  too easy, it's just like getting interest from a bank
Tilemaxos:  Hello. I am a bit rude
Me:  we can still discuss about otheraspects, I won'tleave yet
mohammed:  and i aint leaving to
Me:  are you aware that resource prices are already affected in a way?
Me:  you simply want more affecting based on natural disasters perhaps?
Rhys Gethin has left the chatroom
Rhys Gethin has joined the chatroom
Rhys:  No, I mean real trading
Rhys:  There is no intelligence involved here
mohammed:  like what rhys
Rhys:  okay
Me:  I was referring to tilemaxos.
Rhys:  You can only buy 1 thing, and you can only sell everything but 1 thing in each port
Me:  check 0.8.139 here: http://www.piratesglor...p2761
Tilemaxos:  I monitor the prices in the ports I have warehouses in. but we need like some kind of events to mix things up. I am not aware of how the pricing works now.
Me:  pricing on trade resources work based on stock available on each port.
Me:  natural disasters have been introduced but none has took place yet
Skyhawk:  Well could we talk about the Game News and chat?
Rhys:  Open it up so you can buy and sell everything?
mohammed:  are national disasters active yet
Me:  rhys, have you seen my proposal for the gold bars trading?
Tilemaxos:  OK. I was not aware of this. good feature
Me:  they are not yet active
Rhys:  I saw it mentioned, don't know the details
Me:  i have posted some details
Me:  perhaps you could contribute there, ket me get the link
Rhys:  There is no possible way to lose money by being a stupid trader
Admiral Blackpants has left the chatroom
Skyhawk:  hold on a second Rhys xD
Me:  there will be with gold resource
Me:  it is a big post, really but this is how troubling designing a feature is
Me:  http://www.piratesglor...p3667
Me:  to be truthful, we want to finish treasure hunt TODAY
Me:  this is why we wanted this discussion
mohammed:  really today
Me:  but we will delay it for now, waiting your feedback, till tomorrow morning
Me:  then we will code it
Me:  it won't take more than 12 hours for sure, so we will have it ready tomorrow
Tilemaxos:  can you guys post the log of this chat on the forum?
Me:  we can
Me:  and I will
Rhys:  well I applaud your speed


[Hawk]

I was trying to hide/bury my gold better and accidently spend my turns on the wrong port. Thing was I had no gold buried there..
How can you bury 0 gold better

[Captain Jack]

I was trying to hide/bury my gold better and accidently spend my turns on the wrong port. Thing was I had no gold buried there..
How can you bury 0 gold better

http://s2.piratesglory.com/?page=help&a ... asure_hunt

You can add turns without any treasure. You can add gold coins later.

The feature is provided in order to act like a battery. One might not feel secure enough to add any amount with low turns.

[Captain dungeness]

Captain Jack, I really like how you made a public discussion to get feedback on the Treasure Feature! That is something I have never seen from a game developer before and I'm bummed I missed it

I like the treasure feature so far but I am MUCH more excited about player banking. I love the idea that a player is able to steal the loaned gold and the banker can steal the deposit. I haven't seen a game with such an ability to backstab. I think this is a good game to have a backstab feature because the stakes are so high when you backstab. If I steal millions of gold from a top player I would 100% expect to receive a ton of bad voodoo for it. I would also expect to "fall from grace" and never find trusting people to deposit gold. This creates and uses SOCIAL CURRENCY! An honest and reliable banker could thrive if he can resist the urge to steal.

I plan on opening the largest bank I can when the feature launches. I believe Skyhawk might enjoy this feature as it may give him more jobs when bankers want to collect on deadbeat clients. While designing the bank feature I can think of three important goals: 1) add more possibilities for the trader-types to grow their empire 2) give the mercenaries more reasons to be hired 3) give players a REASON TO USE banks. It would be sad to have a big bank feature but then no reason to risk using it.

One more thing I thought of: The bank feature can be used to give new players a jump start on building their trade fleets. If I found a new player that seems to be trustworthy I would be willing to loan him/her 100k to get started. I would even be willing to loan every new player 10k so they can build a second ship immediately if they asked for it.
To do that I would request the devs to:

1) allow me to offer loans and deposits WITHOUT my approval (w/o me being online) up to a maximum loan size (I would set my maximum at 10k with 1% daily interest [they would owe my bank 13.5k after 1 month])
2) allow me to forgive debt if a new player went inactive with 10k of my bank's gold (forgiving debt would require me to give my bank 10k of my own gold).
3) allow me to set a different daily % interest and max loan/deposit sizes for each player
4) allow me to pre-approve a trusted player to take out another loan or make a deposit (up to a maximum amount) without me being online to sign the papers.
5) allow me to black-list a player who I don't trust. That player wouldn't even be able to take out a 10k loan that I offer to everyone else in Pirates Glory.
6) allow me to set a maximum daily withdraw amount for each player. That way if I have a single 5 million gold investor and I have loaned out 4 million of that gold to other players then my investor couldn't drain me to zero by withdrawing all 1 million remaining gold in 1 day. I would probably set the max withdraw for him to 250k per day (so I have at least 4 days to collect gold from my borrowers to pay him back).
7) let me see a list of how much each player owes me, how much I owe them, their current borrowing % rate, their current depositing % rate and their account balance/activity (including opening the account date, deposits and withdraws/loans for the last few months.
8) It would be great for only the bank owner to see a summary of total gold owed to the bank, total gold owed to depositors and total profit (the difference of the previous 2 numbers). Even better would be a graph of those 3 numbers over time!

This brings a few questions to my mind...
-What happens if a player is a bad banker and accepts a high-interest-rate deposit and then gets it all stolen by a bad borrower? Can he go into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy and try to pay it back? Can he close his bank with Chapter 7 bankruptcy?
-If a player does really poorly and ruins a bank (can't pay off the debt). Can he/she ever start a new bank and try again? I would hate to have a new player get burned by a stealing borrower and then never be able to open a bank again.

Finally: There is one thing I really think is NECESSARY for the bank feature: Player recommendations and warnings. I want to have players be able to thumbs-up my honest bank and thumbs-down sketchy banks. That way a player can look at a list of bank ratings to get a good idea of what bank they can trust. Then they can go to that bank's page and read the currently offered deals. Online auctions usually have "positive/negative/neutral" seller feedback. Social websites have "thumb-up/thumb-down" on news articles/stuff. Pirates Glory should have something like that too.

I realize this is a lot of requests but I am really excited for the possibilities the bank feature could add. I hope I'm not totally misunderstanding the feature because what I've heard sounds awesome. I think it would only take a few player banks to improve the gameplay and attraction for newer players by allowing them access to gold early on to build up their fleets. Banks will also help traders (players that don't tend to do risky things like plundering often). Traders have previously only had a few things to do: usually adding another trade ship every now and then... with banks they can hold onto someone else's gold and use it to build up their own trade fleet or run a business!

-Captain D

[Captain Jack]

Thank you for your post Dungeness, it is great and we will use most -if not all- of your recommendations.

Some further discussion on the feature;

Bank Balance
One of the most important aspects of the bank. Since the balance will be immune to any attacks as a whole,we need to design it in a way that it will not make the treasure hunt feature obsolete. Banks should be used to "PROTECT" money only scarcely and mainly by the owner. This is why we have thought to put a cap on the bank balance and set the maximum amount to be relevant to the building level (it will be upgradeable).

In the bank balance, lies the key for the questions you posted. Below, I have a scenario that will fully explain. There will be no modern safety keys for anyone. We will go the old way where banker plays it all.

Bank Stature for the scenario is as follows
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Bank A has a bank balance of 7 millions gold. The bank owner, has 25 millions in his treasury.
The bank has outstanding deposits of 50 millions out to 200 different players. (it owns 50 millions to players)
The bank also has outstanding loans of 10 millions. (players own 10 millions to the bank)

So, the bank can now:
-Give up to 7 millions in withdrawals.
-Give up to 10 millions in new loans.

Lets say that the owner has set a minimum requirement of 5 millions bank balance for any new loan and a maximum contract of 1 million (for trusted clients).
In the same time the limits for withdrawals is 500k.

Real case scenario
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-Player A wants a loan. He is a trusted player so he takes up 1 million right away.
*Bank Balance drops to 6 Millions
-Player B wants a loan. He is a trusted player so he takes up 1 million right away.
*Bank Balance drops to 5 Millions
-Player C wants a loan.However taking out 1 million from the bank coffers will violate the minimum amount set by the banker. The automatic loan is rejected and is transformed as a pending request (player does not see why). Then a notice is created for the banker, to look after the case.
-Then 10 players show up and each withdraw their maximum amount of 500k
Bank Balance drops to 0.
Then a new player comes up to withdraw some coin; He will not be able to. The game will create a message for him that the bank is not in firm position to give him the gold and the banker will get a notice.

Do note, the player gold is NOT affected at all! The bank now has outstanding debts of 45 Millions (Deposits) - 12 M (projected income from loans) = 33M debt
(I am not including interest rates to make the exampke simple)

Now the banker has a choice to either fund the bank to resume or not. We will also put the ability to fund the bank automatically through treasure, up to a point (ie, if treasury is 20m or more, give excess gold to bank balance.). In this way, banks of honest bankers will rarely run out of cash to give.

Of course, it will be up to the policy each banker follows.

-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=End of Example Scenario--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-

Back on discussion, what is the major troubleshoot right now, is what the levels should affect. Bank balance as I already said? Perhaps more elements? Such as maximum outgoing loans? Or maximum deposits per player? Or maximum overall deposit? The exact number is not that important and we can always tweak this afterwards.

Another important factor is how many bankers are we going to allow. They should be much less than active players. If every players gets to own a bank, it won't be something interesting. So, should we make it a credit feature where credits will be needed for the construction and each upgrade? Should we just make it overly expensive in gold and turns? Something else? Ideas are welcome on this part too.

[Captain Jack]

Now that treasure hunt is fully implemented, we can focus on the banks.

The leading design issue here is how gold protection will work. The key problem in this is that the major reason for a player to bury his treasure, is to protect his gold. In order to keep that feature alive, treasure hunt has to remain the major way to protect gold.

A point to consider:
-Even if banks end up a safer place to store your gold, or simply a more cost-effective (in turns) way to keep it protected, the Treasure Hunt will still be the best option for players that want to take a break (as a banker will most probably rob them if they turn to be inactive for too long).

Probably this is something that the bankers could gain access to: A player's last login time, in the same fashion that memberlist shows it. In this way, a player will be more sceptical into trusting a banker. This requirement should only apply to players using the deposit services of a bank. If a player uses it for a loan, the login time should be hidden. What do you think of this idea?

Another way to diversify the usage of banks as a safe haven, is to imply harsh limits for deposits (costly upgrades, limited persons support, etc). I think this has already been mentioned in the past so I will not analyze much.

It is currently a great concern on how we will handle this issue with banks so ANY feedback is welcome. It can take us months or days to resolve this. The more ideas we receive, the faster will be the resolution (final decision).

Do note that once Hideout is released (currently the feature under development with much work already done), banks must follow.

[Spastic]

Fees could be paid to the banker for holding the money. This way the banker gets some gain and burying your treasure a the more desirable of the 2.

[Big Brother]

example:

A player with a minimum of 5,000,000 gold builds a bank at (ex.) 1,000,000 gold
example equation for cost of leveling: level cost = current level x 1,000,000 + (1,000,000 x level wanted)
so level 10 from level 1 would cost: 1,000,000 + 10,000,000 = 11,000,000
A max level example would be level 25 or 26,000,000 from level 1

The value of a bank would be the total cost to build plus the amount of gold in its vaults

A level 1 bank (just starting) would be able to:
loan a max of 250,000 (25% of its value)
would be able to accept deposits of up to 500,000 (50% of its value) and withdrawals of half of the deposit
would be able to have a max interest rate of .2% (.2% per million in value)

As the banker accepts deposits, it is up to the banker to spread the wealth in liquid funds.

There is obviously room for improvement.