Free will

[qpWiseManBellamyqp]

I personally think that nothing in the world have free will, I am not saying the actions you do aren't yours.

But I tend to think of it this way, if our actions was performed due to chemical signals in our brain and there is no such things as randomness, your DNA changes to the environment, the object of perfect balance on the tip of a single atom was moved because of small air particles, and the moment big bang, or "the start" happened everything is already in place, and everything is already determined by said atoms and such because of where they were at the time. And the atoms becomes stars, planets, life, because they are where they were. Doesn't this means, there was no randomness, and your actions never mattered in the first place, because it was all determined, because the atoms and such, was where they were to begin with to trigger the chain to produce everything we see today?

life goes on no matter what we do or don't do if it be right or wrong... history repeats itself over and over again with newer or older technologies it keeps repeating itself and will never change unless we as a collective race (humans) decide to rid the world of greed and jealousy. If we fight nature we will always lose because its within natures power we are created and destroyed. life as we know it on earth is only recognisable by what we have done in the past, with genetic engineering we are already changing some say for the better some say for the worse.
Very similar with this game I know I'm a war monger and ravaged many who thought they were safe and as a result I was punished and had to change and conform to rules of piracy and the game, but the true nature of me keeps calling from the brethren and I know one day when I think i'm ready I surely will return to my old ways... when I don't know but for sure I know I will I am too weak minded to control "nature" simply because of fun factor

[PFH]

What if black holes are just giant atoms

What if....atoms are black holes? :o

[Grimrock Litless]

What if black holes are just giant atoms

What if....atoms are black holes? :o

What if... the universe is just an atom?

[PFH]

Mind......BLOWN!!!

Then we are in a constant black hole mate!!!!

[Maha]

I personally think that nothing in the world have free will, I am not saying the actions you do aren't yours.

But I tend to think of it this way, if our actions was performed due to chemical signals in our brain and there is no such things as randomness, your DNA changes to the environment, the object of perfect balance on the tip of a single atom was moved because of small air particles, and the moment big bang, or "the start" happened everything is already in place, and everything is already determined by said atoms and such because of where they were at the time. And the atoms becomes stars, planets, life, because they are where they were. Doesn't this means, there was no randomness, and your actions never mattered in the first place, because it was all determined, because the atoms and such, was where they were to begin with to trigger the chain to produce everything we see today?

so the universe is purely chemical mechanic. our thoughts and choices are illusions that we don't recognize as such. my next sip of coffee was pre-ordained 4 billion years ago and Trump being president as well.

living in a preordained mechanical universe absolves all mankind from 'purpose of life' and morality. it comes close to the Eastern believe in karma: the law of cause and order. your moral choices in previous lives influence what happens to you; therefore you cannot avoid the amount of hardship that you 'deserve'. This shows in a nihilistic believe that working hard to better your life is impossible or useless; if karma has it in store for you it will happen anyway. Only when the believe in karma is overthrown by a mindset that believes that you can influence your life in the here and now, is a different attitude shown. or the hindu idea that this life is an illusion, 'a mist', to realize that it ain't real is key to reaching absolute freedom.

a true believer in the absence of free will would not play this (or any other ) game, there is no joy in 'being used'. a true believer realizes that his emotions and thoughts are chemical products and not to be relied on for some kind of 'truth' and would distrust them. imo would true believers use mind altering chemicals to block their depressive nihilistic thoughts and to feel a stimulated sense of excitement. when they cannot alter their feelings anymore (by deadening their senses through overload, or by lack of finances) death will be the way out. way live a controlled life?

this theory denies that we have a the ability to make moral choices. which lead to the old saying that religions were made to bring (moral) order in society; a way to control the masses. from an a-theistic point of view religion has to be man made; an idea that has evolved for some reason. the 'no free will' theory delivers that reason: our thoughts are byproducts of a preordained life; our brains (whatever real function the have in our body) somehow emit signals that other parts of that brain is able to receive and 'translate' as thoughts and feelings.

the problem is our sense of being. what makes us believe that we are? why do i have the idea that "I" exist?? how did "matter" trancecent through chemical processes to the immaterial sense of 'Self' and sense of morality? these are the wonders of life that the evolution theory cannot answer. the denial of them (through the denial of free will) solves that problem.

normally it takes a few generations before a new worldview is settled. first theorist coin the idea and promote it while their way of life is still ruled by the old worldview. the next generation embraces the theory but embeds it still in the old worldview because that is ingrained by their upbringing and thus normal. the masses think one way but base their lives on another way, the following generation is a mix of both worldviews. many old concepts are replaced by the new but the old concepts still play a part. the final generation in the process never had role models of the old worldview, no indoctrination in the old worldview and thus cannot imagine that people truly embraced it. this generation is no longer bound by the morals and values of the old but base their actions solely on the new concepts.

now we have to consider whether is concept of 'no freewill' will take hold or not. on the plus it brings the mainstream dominant worldview based on the evolution theory to a logical conclusion. the biggest obstacle imo is that nobody wants to live a truly preordained meaningless life. the idea of being a robot that is duped by chemical reactions in the brain is horrible. and that shows where i am in the process of adopting this new idea

[Grimrock Litless]

I personally think that nothing in the world have free will, I am not saying the actions you do aren't yours.

But I tend to think of it this way, if our actions was performed due to chemical signals in our brain and there is no such things as randomness, your DNA changes to the environment, the object of perfect balance on the tip of a single atom was moved because of small air particles, and the moment big bang, or "the start" happened everything is already in place, and everything is already determined by said atoms and such because of where they were at the time. And the atoms becomes stars, planets, life, because they are where they were. Doesn't this means, there was no randomness, and your actions never mattered in the first place, because it was all determined, because the atoms and such, was where they were to begin with to trigger the chain to produce everything we see today?

so the universe is purely chemical mechanic. our thoughts and choices are illusions that we don't recognize as such. my next sip of coffee was pre-ordained 4 billion years ago and Trump being president as well.

living in a preordained mechanical universe absolves all mankind from 'purpose of life' and morality. it comes close to the Eastern believe in karma: the law of cause and order. your moral choices in previous lives influence what happens to you; therefore you cannot avoid the amount of hardship that you 'deserve'. This shows in a nihilistic believe that working hard to better your life is impossible or useless; if karma has it in store for you it will happen anyway. Only when the believe in karma is overthrown by a mindset that believes that you can influence your life in the here and now, is a different attitude shown. or the hindu idea that this life is an illusion, 'a mist', to realize that it ain't real is key to reaching absolute freedom.

a true believer in the absence of free will would not play this (or any other ) game, there is no joy in 'being used'. a true believer realizes that his emotions and thoughts are chemical products and not to be relied on for some kind of 'truth' and would distrust them. imo would true believers use mind altering chemicals to block their depressive nihilistic thoughts and to feel a stimulated sense of excitement. when they cannot alter their feelings anymore (by deadening their senses through overload, or by lack of finances) death will be the way out. way live a controlled life?

this theory denies that we have a the ability to make moral choices. which lead to the old saying that religions were made to bring (moral) order in society; a way to control the masses. from an a-theistic point of view religion has to be man made; an idea that has evolved for some reason. the 'no free will' theory delivers that reason: our thoughts are byproducts of a preordained life; our brains (whatever real function the have in our body) somehow emit signals that other parts of that brain is able to receive and 'translate' as thoughts and feelings.

the problem is our sense of being. what makes us believe that we are? why do i have the idea that "I" exist?? how did "matter" trancecent through chemical processes to the immaterial sense of 'Self' and sense of morality? these are the wonders of life that the evolution theory cannot answer. the denial of them (through the denial of free will) solves that problem.

normally it takes a few generations before a new worldview is settled. first theorist coin the idea and promote it while their way of life is still ruled by the old worldview. the next generation embraces the theory but embeds it still in the old worldview because that is ingrained by their upbringing and thus normal. the masses think one way but base their lives on another way, the following generation is a mix of both worldviews. many old concepts are replaced by the new but the old concepts still play a part. the final generation in the process never had role models of the old worldview, no indoctrination in the old worldview and thus cannot imagine that people truly embraced it. this generation is no longer bound by the morals and values of the old but base their actions solely on the new concepts.

now we have to consider whether is concept of 'no freewill' will take hold or not. on the plus it brings the mainstream dominant worldview based on the evolution theory to a logical conclusion. the biggest obstacle imo is that nobody wants to live a truly preordained meaningless life. the idea of being a robot that is duped by chemical reactions in the brain is horrible. and that shows where i am in the process of adopting this new idea

That's deep.

[Most Lee Harmless]

You can not know if you have free will : what may seem to be an independent action may be pre-ordained to make you believe it was independent. Equally, you can not know if you dont have free will, for the same reason. Thus its an infinite argument with no conclusion.

Our belief (assumed knowledge) in the abstract concept of 'free will' is largely conditioned by other beliefs which form our view of 'how our world works' : belief in an omnipotent deity able to intervene directly in our life implies a lack of free will : some religions then state this deity 'gives' us free will in our actions. Others state the deity does not and all is pre-ordained (It's Gods Will) : most have a sort of mish-mash of both and most then tend towards an 'End Days' scenario when the diety will decide to re-arrange cosmic matters on their terms. Lack of belief in deities would tend to form the view that 'free will' does exist : that all events are the result of random prior events of such complexity, pre-ordination is a mathematical impossibility (the butterfly flapping its wings in the Amazon which causes a storm in Europe), so we are free to make the best of it, as we see fit.

[Blackbearad]

that's some strong stuff there mate, be careful

[Maha]

Our belief (assumed knowledge) in the abstract concept of 'free will' is largely conditioned by other beliefs which form our view of 'how our world works' : belief in an omnipotent deity able to intervene directly in our life implies a lack of free will : some religions then state this deity 'gives' us free will in our actions.

i think that your argument doesn't hold that someone can intervene has nothing to do with free will. it only implies that we cannot follow up on our will without facing consequences. recently some ports were maxed out here. admin intervened, all players still have free will, but our actions, not will, are only limited by new regulations.

Others state the deity does not and all is pre-ordained (It's Gods Will) : most have a sort of mish-mash of both and most then tend towards an 'End Days' scenario when the diety will decide to re-arrange cosmic matters on their terms.

a final rearrangement has nothing to do with free will. i agree on the extreme of pre-ordination belief system; here we see a paradox of believers holding themselves accountable for deserving hell while they cannot change their destination by any decision or action they could make.

Lack of belief in deities would tend to form the view that 'free will' does exist : that all events are the result of random prior events of such complexity, pre-ordination is a mathematical impossibility (the butterfly flapping its wings in the Amazon which causes a storm in Europe), so we are free to make the best of it, as we see fit.

and strangely the newest 'no free will' philosophies come from this corner. with the increased understanding of bio-neuro-chemical reactions in the brain, combined with a lineair, evolutionair worldview leads for a growing gtoup of scientists to the concept of 'no free will'; we are our brains etc etc.

[Most Lee Harmless]

The argument I make is that it is empirically impossible to prove 'free will' exists or that it does not exist. Thus belief, or non-belief, in the concept is largely conditioned by other beliefs we may hold. I made no claim as to the accuracy or provability of those beliefs, just their likely effect upon the believer. Personally, I see 'free will' much the same as I see 'deities' : their presence cant be proved, their absence likewise. Might as well toss a coin and go with that decision on it.