Changelog Discussion

[Captain Jack]

1.8.152: New Live Notification Type: Guildmates under attack!
-All players have this particular notification ON by default.
-You can change this setting at Profile->Notifications

I see the merchants got there way; Might as well message the players " I am going to raid you ".

I do not see why this was implemented, many voted this down?

I do not recall this ever being under discussion for anyone to downvote it.

This is not a merchant feature either. This is a feature to enhance guilds and live interaction in the game.

[Haron]

I'm siding with Avery on this one. This will make raids harder for sure. It will require super-fast attacks. In raids, I have often deliberately avoided voodoo that "lingers", because that can be seen by guild mates. Being able to attack someone without their guild mates noticing is paramount. The reasons why should be obvious: Generosity, mindbar and counter voodoo will destroy a raid immidiately.

Already I consider around 2 minutes to be the maximum time frame for a raid, because guild mates can se the gold level - but only when in the guild page or in a port with the target. If they actually get a notification, this time frame drops to below anything feasible.

[Captain Jack]

Facilitating attack-when-you-sleep style is not in our agenda. You call them raids but in our book we are against this type of gaming. Sure, at times you need to catch people off guard to profit and this is acceptable so we do not oppose it actively. What is in our agenda,is making guilds more worthwhile. If a guildmate sees the attack and helps, then this is good in our book.

You can still profit even if attackers are alerted. If not, then we should seek other ways. To take it a bit further though, you are by default opposing the right of a guildmate to help. In the same time, you take for granted that guildmates will help which is not entirely true at all cases.

For the record, this type of alert is not similar to the other ones. It last about 10 seconds (no sound) at the bottom right of the player screen. Which means that you need to be on your screen to catch it. Plunder attack notifications on you for example, have a sound and they stick; its very difficult to miss them.

[Haron]

If "attack when you sleep" is not desired, then mechanichs should be in place to facilitate raids against active players. As it is, that's virtually impossible to do - at least with a profit (you can always attack a player if you're willing to spend enough, of course, but why do that?).

Refilling gold on hand takes a few seconds. The same to cast a mindbar or generosity. In my opinion, doing raids - with a profit - is already very hard. If making raids extinct is desired, then I guess this is a good feature to achieve that, though. As for guilds being "worthwhile": Anyone who doesn't think being in their guild is "worthwhile", is in the wrong guild! I'll only speak for myself, but to me, being in the T'zak Ryn brings LOTS of benefits. I hope my guildmates agree with me in this

[Captain Jack]

We are open to ideas for more mechanics. We got many ideas ourselves and I might open a relative discussion topic.

Aid is a question with many other questions to be answered first:
-Are the guildmates aware?
-Are the guildmates willing to help?
-Do they know how to help?
-Do they have the needed assets to help?

What we mostly do here, is to alert online guildmates, those actively playing the game, not those who simply have a tab open. So, the 1st question is semi-answered in order to make it possible for the player to respond to the other 3 questions. It enhances the game in so many ways.

I could accept that blind attacks seem to be on the pounding here but we need to consider more elements. What currently happens in Avonmora is mostly solo vs solo with guild support on the defensive for each player. Guild vs solo is also possible, especially when the other player is inactive or a known danger. Guild vs Guild is fairly rare. That's not good in our book.

What I mean, is that slowly this game needs to progress at this front as well. You got the tools, you only need the right reasons because reasons already exist. So, I could counter say that if a guildmate wants to aid, then you could also escalate to his guildmate as well. This would add another question in the aid part. The one of "What happens if they target me next?"

[Maha]

i agree that guild vs guild would add a fun dimension to the game.

however, raids (in the sense of a quick, focused attack with the aim to capture 1 or more specific ships) are costly, has need for multiple attackers because of the amount of turns needed in the voodoo and asks for thorough preparation. Raids are done with 'profit' in mind.

the 'Fame' standard has been replaced by the 'gold coin' standard. fighting for the opportunity of gathering Fame points is hardly done

branching out is almost the opposite of a raid. it has no purpose, for the initial one (those specific ships) is gone and branching out will only be a waste of voodoo and turns. with the careful gold coin balance ( gold coin protection against raids without becoming a plunder target because of the gc) fighting will not generate a definitive profit.

it is my opinion that the gold coin standard stifles fighting.
for me the question is how to transition back to the fame standard?
part of the answer is imo to attach incentives to fame levels. let game features be unlocked by fame levels and lock them again when the fame drops below a certain level.

[Hawk]

Problem with this is defense is absolute. Aka Mindbar. An active guild could easily counter any serious attack already. In addition the offensive expense of any battle against a basic guild defense is immense. Consider the cost to break a Mindbar which can be replaced in a matter of seconds. This is especially apparent to my guild, as we have to calculate the cost of voodoo for any proposed ventures. Often the price is much higher then even seems reasonable to me, due simply to the insurmountable defense Mindbar provides. This update makes even going to the lengths of breaking a Mindbar that much more likely a waste of gold and an unviable tactic.

So what now? Skirmish them to death? Lol

Would be plausible if skirmish was more like I originally proposed, but as is now this update seems rather counter productive to your goal of encouraging more guild warfare. I doubt the majority of guilds can even get enough offensive cards to maintain any kind of assault for more then a day. There is a reason wars fizzle out so fast, when one side goes defensive

[Haron]

We always do "guild vs. player" for any decent size raid. One reason is that it goes faster (time is already essential; we need to finish before a guild mate of the target notices). Another reason is that it's easier to have enough turns when we're more players. Oh, and it's more fun that way, of course!

As for the defense: Any player who's done training and reached a decent rank should always help. I know my guildmates are both able and willing to do so. As I would myself. Don't wanna help a guild mate under attack? Find an other guild. This is true for most guilds (I have seen exceptions, but they are rare). SSTG are famous for looking after each others, for instance. I always expect one of them to watch the guild page around the top of the hour.

Guild vs guild battles may sound fun. And yes, we already have the tools. What we lack, is incentive. Why would the T'zak Ryn attack AYES? Not much to gain from that. We may gain from lighting up and plundering one of their players, of course, but declaring and conducting an all-out war on their guild would simply drain our resources (and theirs), giving us nothing back. We'd only do such a thing as part of our contract work, but that would require someone ELSE to have a reason to want to drain the resources of our "target guild".

Then there is the nation/guild discussion. Some may feel a stronger bond to their nation than to their guild, while it's the opposite for others. This causes a messy situation. I know a player got angry when one of my guild mates stole two ships from him, because they were in the same nation. Our reply: We are loyal to the T'zak Ryn only, and don't care about your nationality. If he considered his nation to be his "friends", that might be tough on him.

If you want more nation vs nation action, or guild vs guild, then this "Am I loyal to my nation or guild?" situation may need some sorting out first. And there needs to be a REASON to attack another guild or nation (there are some small reasons to attack nations, but not really to attack guilds). I believe that a simple, yet effective way to achieve this would be to implement something along the lines of "External Political Events" (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2591&p=32742&hilit=External+Political+Events#p32742). Want a war? Give it as a "quest" to the leaders of a nation, with rewards for success and penalties for failure.

Apart from that, I'm sure new ideas to mechanics will come from both me and several other players. But as it is, with no new mechanics, I think our raids will become even rarer than they already are. Probably there will be none until we come up with more mechanichs which benefits the attackers in raids. Or if call levi and ambush cards become "common".

[Admiral Nelson]

Facilitating attack-when-you-sleep style is not in our agenda. You call them raids but in our book we are against this type of gaming

Oh well in that case let me know when everyone is online and I will make it fair.

[Haron]

How about this, Avery: Anyone offline is immune to attacks. Drawback: All their fleets are halted at the position they had when their owner logged off

Disclaimer: This was a joke, not a serious suggestion. This disclaimer is necessary because I've seen even worse suggestions which were meant seriously...