[Implemented] Patrol in PvP

[Hawk]

So jack care to reconsider? This time I got a better argument

Right now pirating is not profitable nor realistic, in fact I doubt any stronger players right now are even considering it. Weaker players cannot do anything as well due to the voodoo combat system.

A game mechanic like this would do wonders for the game and do multiple things:

1) Make gameplay much more realistic and interesting. Traders will have to worry pirates once again. This will encourage adding war ships to trading fleets to fend off plunderers (just like real life). A trader suggested having trading fleets meet each other and do combat.. thats not what traders do, thats what pirates do

2) BALANCE the combat system by allowing a way to attack that takes the strain off the voodoo system. Like I said the voodoo system is not broken, the problem is that it is the only game mechanic that that can be used for anything and it is BUYABLE. No good game should have a single game mechanic that is the only way to do beat players and offer unlimited advantages in that system by paying.

3) Increase tolerance of pirates in a Pirate game. This system would make pirating an option for noobs again since voodoo is not needed. This in turn would increase the number of attacks that are randomly spread out. A trader would no longer be able to consider an attack an act of war since a) the attack was random and b) Even if he taught that pirate a lesson he would still be gettting randomly attacked. Traders would need to decide which pirates are worth taking measures against and which are not yet a problem, this is what I mean by tolerance.

[Captain Jack]

What about the danger system ?
The answer on your immediate suggestion remains a NO. There is no way we will desert the existing danger system.

However, I must agree that there is more that Pirates need. I even said it yesterday if you paid attention to my post on Titles needed feedback. Perhaps that post pushed you to make this post? There is much work to be done on Pirates and I underlined this on that post.

However, I would not describe it as bad as you do though, especially with the 2 special buffs that are coming along with Titles&Nations feature.

The near-future addon for pirates that will really matter, could be the Privateer feature. I am sure you will love this one as it will give all the tools a "mercenary" needs to do his job. It will work as it worked historically.

Anyway, I am willing to give more info on the list of ideas we got on pirates but I will not do it so here as it would be off topic.
If you would like to chit-chat about it, open a relative topic in General Discussion with your ideas and I will be happy to participate.

[Hawk]

Patrol - Give a random trading fleet on this route +1 danger. Costs 7 turns

Any idea can be altered to fit within certain rules now it is danger friendly
I am interested to hear about the ideas you mentioned but I'll let someone else open the topic since I have nothing else to contribute at the moment

[Captain Jack]

Patrol - Give a random trading fleet on this route +1 danger. Costs 7 turns

Any idea can be altered to fit within certain rules now it is danger friendly
I am interested to hear about the ideas you mentioned but I'll let someone else open the topic since I have nothing else to contribute at the moment

I see your point clearly now. It is not a bad idea after all! However, we got to think of the one that receives the attack. It has to be balanced and fair somehow.

Perhaps we could add this ability only to Pirates. I would not mind even if it gave +3 danger immediately so that the Pirate has a target to attack and grab some booty.

Another idea would be to limit this ability to a fixed number per day. Later on, when we add an RPG perspective to the game, it can be added to the character skill set and players will be able to upgrade this skill (in the expense of others) and get more attacks.

So what remains, is to find a way for players to defend or organize against it. If we can find a balanced counterpart, then this discussion can go on. We will also need to pick carefully the timing of this implementation so even if we agree, we will still need to find the right time to implement it, which right now seems to fit with the random events feature.

[Hawk]

I like the idea of this being a pirate nation ability, its about time pirates get a perk lol

I think this game mechanic would need to rely on spreading out the attacks evenly so no player is inconvinenced too much. A decent turn cost and a limit like you suggested would keep this in check. I suggest a limit of X patrols per hour for each individual port. I am not sure what the numbers should be but it would obviously depend on if it was +1 +2 or +3 danger.

Defense against this would be unnecessary if it was measured correctly due to the random factor, but the following could be done by traders:

1) Spread out trading fleets throughout the ports to reduce chances of being attacked at any one port

2) If the danger added is +1 or +2, longer trade routes would help keep fleets from appearing

3) Add stronger ships to fleets to protect traders

4) Keep an eye on pirates attacks and take action to keep the attacks in check

[Captain dungeness]

I like where this is going- It should definitely be a pirates-only ability. I strongly agree that pirates need some reliable tools to do their work without angering the more trader-like captains (right now pirates are not tolerated due to their huge potential for fame and gold damage). I would love it if Pirates could profitably be the silent "service providers" for the "respectable trade captains". If a pirate is the only one who can use this ability then it is another reason to hire a pirate to do your dirty work.

The problem with adding +3 danger to a random trade fleet is this makes it simply an unreliable Fugitive from Justice card. If I get the correct player's trade fleet +3 danger then I still need to plunder him the same as always and he will see my name in the battle report and he will bite back. I might as well use Fugitive from Justice and fight him face to face that way.

If I was going to be a pirate- I would want them to never see my face and only my pirate flag. I would patrol for 15 turns each time and maybe 20% of the time I would find a fleet on a trade route. Then I would see their flag and the level of each ship in the fleet (and maybe the ship type... or maybe just ship type and not ship level). Then I have 5 minutes to decide to sneak attack that fleet or not. If I sneak attack and win, then I get the battle rewards (except for fame) and get to see the player's name (I want to be proud of stealing from the #1 player even though they don't know it was me!). If I lose, then the prey gets the battle rewards (except for fame) and neither player gets to see the other's name. That way the pirate is safely hidden and can do his or her work without being hated by all. A 20% chance for 15 turns each means this ability would only succeed a few times each day. Or it could be more much expensive and less random (like 50% chance to find a random fleet at a cost of 75 turns) so it would, on average, be successful about once per day.

Don't give the winner of a sneak attack the usual fame bonus because it would be really obvious who hit you if you see one pirate gained 2 million fame on the same day you were plundered. Besides, the sneaky player didn't show his face so he shouldn't get the fame!



Summary: Give those pirates a way to be sneaky and not just another way to anger the traders!! Sneak attacks could possibly do exactly that.


-Captain D

[Captain Jack]

Perhaps then such a feature should come after the Escort feature, where traders will be able to use escorts for their fleets. Not necessarily though.
Also, if it is truly random, then consider the fact of revealing a total weak fleet, of a newcomer for example. This wouldn't be much of a feat.

Some ideas:

a)
Option 1)Go for +3 danger. This means that everyone will have some time to attack the ship you just found
or
Option 2)Go for visibility only for you, only for 1 attack, no danger involved. If you do not attack within 5 minutes, target disappears.

b)
Only players with Pirate Flag can do so. Perhaps with this policy, option 2 become more suitable for a).

c)
Add a slight bonus to gold out of nowhere. Pirates will already get an increased bonus in fame anyway with Titles feature but there should be a lot less fame awarded and definitely not % based.

d)
A limit per port does not sound well. We could just set a relatively big amount of turns. Let's say 6. 6 + 4 = 10 turns for a single attack. It sounds balanced.

Now, adding a secret attack is not good as this will be a manual attack. We can however add this ability to Pirates. So the players will know that it is one of the pirates doing this.

Upon a more careful reading of this idea, the success of this idea will depend on how many are willing to play the Pirate. If many do so, then merchants will get a big headache. It is a potential game changer and If this was implemented today for example, it would turn many players from Traders to Pirates. Whatever is possible to cause a big change of strategies is not a good idea. Therefore such an idea requires more planning and still it may need to be delayed till the proper anti-strategies are already in place.

Finally, let us not forget the danger that these attacks will award to the attacker. This is also an issue. I do not think that even a pirate would like to assault a 1000 gold player for 6 danger.

Generally, Captain dungeness puts it generally nice. Perhaps better than me. I just provided more food for thought.

[Hawk]

Perhaps then such a feature should come after the Escort feature, where traders will be able to use escorts for their fleets. Not necessarily though.
Also, if it is truly random, then consider the fact of revealing a total weak fleet, of a newcomer for example. This wouldn't be much of a feat.

Since weaker players have less trading fleets they would have a lower chance to show, also the danger would not really be worth it in this case. However this is a reason to make the patrol targets only show to the user instead of everyone in the plunder screen

Some ideas:

a)
Option 1)Go for +3 danger. This means that everyone will have some time to attack the ship you just found
or
Option 2)Go for visibility only for you, only for 1 attack, no danger involved. If you do not attack within 5 minutes, target disappears.

b)
Only players with Pirate Flag can do so. Perhaps with this policy, option 2 become more suitable for a).

Option 2 was my original idea. Making a trader open for everyone to attack seems very unbalanced

c)
Add a slight bonus to gold out of nowhere. Pirates will already get an increased bonus in fame anyway with Titles feature but there should be a lot less fame awarded and definitely not % based.

Now, adding a secret attack is not good as this will be a manual attack. We can however add this ability to Pirates. So the players will know that it is one of the pirates doing this.

I propose a stealth option for pirates. If you choose to conceal your attack after patroling you get no fame, otherwise I think the fame is ok since everyone knows who attacked.

[Captain Jack]

Well, this discussion addresses a potential resolution to current ranking unbalance. I am sure many people would like to rise higher in fame and even hit the leaders but in the same time they do not want an open war.

This is the only discussion in the forums that tries to approach this.
I will try to summarize the discussion so far in titles.

Feature name: Patrol to find PC fleets

• Available only to Pirates
• Normal danger resolution involved when a battle resolves
• Pirate uses turns (probably 2) to find a rules-based-selected fleet on selected port (check below for the rules)
• Pirate does not see the fleet's owner name. He only sees gold and a DESCRIPTIVE indication of fame amount.
• Pirate has 5 minutes to attack this fleet.
• Pirate gets to see defender's name if he wins the battle
• Defender only sees that a PIRATE attacked, no matter if he won or not
• Normal gold bounty with a maximum of 62500 (4 times lower than current max)
• Halved fame bounty (This means 2.5% of fame for someone with more than 1 million fame - 1.25% of it goes to the winner)

A new special rule for pirates is needed in order to have this feature successful:

• Pirate owned fleets no longer show owners' name in plunder list - ever again. Only Flag and Pirate will show.
• Example: Queen's Ann Revenge (#12345) - Pirate
• Fleet numbers, Fleet names and Ship names will be visible as normal.

Rules for selecting a fleet. Every fleet must meet ALL conditions in order to be discovered by a pirate.
Conditions ORDER (as listed below) plays a role!

• A fleet must be travelling to or from or be stationed in the port which pirate patrols.
• Fleet owners that received 10 attacks in this day, are excluded (It will act as PROTECTION - Up to 12.5% total loss of fame every day. Up to 625k max gold loss per day)
• A fleet must be owned by a player that is among the top 20 fleet owners: By number, Only fleet numbers on port will count. (ie if Captain Dungeness has the most fleets overall but only 3 in this port and there are 20 others that have 4 or more, his fleets will not be included)
• A fleet owner must not be in the same guild with the pirate (this means that if your colleagues consist of the top20 fleet owners in port, then no fleets will be generated for you)

Here is now a real case scenario example taking in mind the rules above:

• Skyhawk patrols for PC(player character) owned fleets in the region of Tortuga. 200 Fleets are found at the region by the engine.
• The engine finds that 3 of the owners have already received 10 attacks today. Their fleet total combines a massive number of 50. Therefore 150 fleets remain as these are excluded.
• The engine sorts these 150 fleets by player and creates a top 20. With this method 100 fleets remain in the pool
• The engine finds that there are 3 of your guildmates included in this list. It removes them and their fleets so about 80 fleets remain in the pool
• The engine randomly selects one of these 80 fleets and makes it available to Skyhawk

(All this resolution will take place in less than 5ms. I got to love pc gaming!)


I personally consider this idea (as it has evolved) very important. Such a system would balance the game a lot, especially fame indicators which are still going up and are completely unrealistic. I am not sure if it is final yet, more discussion should take place.

We need some more discussion on it and I hope EVERYONE that has something to say, please do so. If you disagree, I need to know. If you agree, I also need to know. If you do not like a specific element, I need to know. If you would like something more or changed, I would like to know.

We also need to define when this should be implemented (once we decide it with final details). Countries&titles huge feature is nearly finished (it's primary phase at least as there are a lot of things to be added to nations as time passes). The next feature programmed are a)Hideout HQ - Special Buildings - Gold Resource and b)Treasures and Banks. However this feature is SMALL and can be added EASILY.

Surely after the Nations&Titles feature and could be right after (like an addition to the nations overall feature).

Notices:
-Fame loss & Gold loss in combination with PROTECTION

With 180 turns per day, it will mean that a pirate will be able to pull 30 attacks per day (2 turns for patrol & 4 for the attack).

• If the bounty is normal, he will be able to make UP TO 30*62500 (max bounty) = 1 875 000 gold per day
• Halved fame combined with daughters, means that the BREAK EVEN point will be at 6,250,000 fame points (if you can get what I mean)
• We only worry for the amount of fame lost, not won, as Pirates will get normal danger on their fleets.

[Captain Jack]

Regarding timing, it definitely has to come after Escort&Guard feature: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=91