Bank/Private marina Balance Tweaks

[Most Lee Harmless]

I appreciate your comments, CJ : but, if players are to build banks and invest that amount of gold, there has to be some 'return on investment' to make it worth their while to do so. And whilst I did expect some limitation on banks may have been forthcoming in the way of 'tweaks', the proposed changes are overly harsh and push the cost-benefit equation firmly, in my view, into the red. Until the exact scope of any changes are finalised its a bit hard to prepare for them, but I cant see any case for seeking to expand it or devote any further resources to it until then.

[TheLoveTiger]

If the number of banks is concerning, why not limit the number that can be made. As Kart has suggested allow a co-ownership so players still have access to "Owning" a bank. Example:


You decided you want to see a max of 20 banks, these 20 banks all have the founding Chairmen. In order to allow others to own a bank you allow the partnership of members who can split it up to 4 ways or into a mix of certain percentages. This way people can grow banks and yet still be within your liking. Knowing that you can sell partnerships, you could also implement selling of whole banks to anyone who doesn't own a bank.

Yes we all know you said these implements would be expensive but at the same time I agree with DD that it should have some benefits to the one investing into themselves and the game.

[MAjesty]

i very recently did a large number of banking transactions with both of the major banks. it has brought to my attention several issues about banks.

before i get there, i'd like to draw attention to the fact that SHM and Capt D have made no complaints, to my knowledge, about the input costs of banks. i understand that there is a self benifacicient factor to justify clamoring for more immediate gains on their banks. however, in my experience, the bankers ended up making several million gold having done nothing with their turns towards my individual transaction. over an extended period, it is just inevitable that the bank, virtually any bank, will pay for itself several times over , and it is generally reasonable to expect the investment of cash required to be a banker to be high, prohibitively so.

i would like to log my concerns about something else, the unassailable essence of banks. as it stands right now the wealthiest banks have the ability to sling cash around with reckless abandon, this makes the nest egg they are slinging around something which would logically be craved by the hardworking pirate element that in theory defines this game. i would furthermore posit that the safety of this incredibly large sum of money far more then vindicates the high cost of banking

and therefore, i would encourage/request that the future of bank tweakery be focused on making the money in banks something which has to be materially protected before any changes are made which makes banking a more profitable endeavor

[Captain Jack]

One small step at each time will work better then. We all agree on Private Marina tweaks it seems.

How about this for the banks, as a first step:
Bank Owner Max Deposit = ( Total amount deposited by clients ) - (Current Bank Balance) + ( Bank Level * 5M ) + 15M

Simply put, who are in favor and who are against. And if you are against, can you give a way to limit the usage of Banks as a treasure hive?

[Most Lee Harmless]

response to MAj :

I haven't spoken for all bankers : I have spoken for myself, about my concerns about these changes and their effects on me. Other bankers may hold other opinions, as do you. I'm sure if CD or SHM have an opinion they wish to share, they will, neither of us can claim to know what it is until then.

I haven't asked for 'more immediate gains' : I have objected to the proposed reduction in benefits of ownership. The proposed changes will not affect your costs of doing business with a bank : a bank wont make more or less money from your business : its more an opinion that the reductions proposed will make a bank a less desirable investment. If that's the basis for them, to reduce the number of banks, then fine, mine will be one bank less. But babies and bath water : if you freeze out new banks, cull the existing ones and leave just a few : then your cost of doing business will not stay the same : why should it not rise, there will be little competition to encourage otherwise. The only bar in town is always profitable, even if it is a filthy dump selling watered down whiskey and rancid food. I would have thought even a libertarian-minded pirate could comprehend that.

[Most Lee Harmless]

One small step at each time will work better then. We all agree on Private Marina tweaks it seems.

How about this for the banks, as a first step:
Bank Owner Max Deposit = ( Total amount deposited by clients ) - (Current Bank Balance) + ( Bank Level * 5M ) + 15M

Simply put, who are in favor and who are against. And if you are against, can you give a way to limit the usage of Banks as a treasure hive?

No problem with the marina tweaks, even though having a higher level marina already built will mean I miss out on any cost reductions ; swings and roundabouts, I made a small gain on the bank cost increase.

Not sure how that formula works, CJ : I'll add some numbers to maybe get a clearer idea :

Bank Owner Max Deposit = ( customer funds = 20mil ) - (customer + bankers funds = 20mil) + ( Bank Level (2) = 10mil ) + 15M : would equal = 25mil

Bank Owner Max Deposit = ( 20mil ) - (30mil) + ( Bank Level (2) = 10mil ) + 15M : would equal = 15mil ( + 10mil already deposited = 25mil)

Bank Owner Max Deposit = ( 20mil ) - (40mil) + ( Bank Level (2) = 10mil ) + 15M : would equal = 5mil ( + 20mil already deposited = 25mil)

So, whatever the mix of deposits to total bank balance, the owners cant exceed 25mil of their own coin in the level 2 bank : unless they receive income from loans/fees/commission ; which gain is lost if the owner makes any withdrawal that takes his deposits below the bar. The 25mil bar would then rise by 5mil for each new level. So, at level20 the banker could hold 115mil of their own funds : this would increase if funds from commissions, interest, etc are accrued, but if any funds are withdrawn the bar would come into effect again once the banker deposit falls below it : is that a correct working out?

[Sir Henry Morgan]

I think you have it right, Danik - the only variable I am a bit confused on is how loans affect this formula.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I think you have it right, Danik - the only variable I am a bit confused on is how loans affect this formula.

Me too. I assume it is this : when you give the loan, your share of the deposits falls, so you can put that same amount back into the bank : then, when (if?) the loan is repaid, it will be added to your funds so you can then go above the bar: assuming you never withdraw anything to lower the bar back down again... i think.

[Sir Henry Morgan]

That sounds right - as long as it is possible for a banker to cover the loans with his\her own funds without risk to the depositor's funds, I don't have an issue with this idea. The idea of lending depositor's funds is a recipe for disaster. Until banker's can provide an incentive for depositor's to leave funds in the bank, ie, certificate of deposit paying interest, the current accounts are best a service to allow depositors to store some coin, and conduct private business.

Limiting the banker's personal deposit will justify the idea that a bank will operate as a bank, not just as a convenient place to stash extra gold. As Maj indicated, it is currently totally protected, and not accessible to anyone but the banker - putting a limit on how much excess gold a banker can stash is a good idea. If you want to increase the amount, you have to issue a loan, ie, take a risk, and hope for some income from transactions and other future services.

Excess gold can be buried, where turns are used to protect it, or turned into gold bars and stashed in a warehouse, where you might lose it through a voodoo card, etc. The chance you may lose what you have gained has always been a part of Pirates Glory. Or, excess gold can be invested in officers, hideouts, warehouses, ships, etc., in hopes it produces a benefit. This too, has always been a part of the game.

Otherwise, everyone on Avonmora is eventually going to open a personal bank. I don't think that is the intention of the dev. team.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Aye, well, maybe that's the case, I'm done with the whole thing anyway : rather than spend 50-60mil to add a level, I'll just put the coin into other banks and leave it there.