Dev Team - Flagships

[Banger]

I feel we are "stepping over dollars to pick up dimes" with this topic.

I think what Stan said is valid. Without blockades, etc. a flagship serves little purpose. Perhaps we are putting the cart in front of the horse.

[Vane]

Sad that the one thing a pirate almost really had going for them is being overhauled to the point most of us who looked forward to it could care less now... I dont disagree, the ship should and can easily be for all, but it was originally conceived as a battle ship and should remain that way. Trying to tie it into bankers and merchants takes away from what it was entirely. Pirates dont have access to the bank, we dont complain it makes perfect sense. A Flagship was the lead ship in a fleet, generally the largest and strongest or most battle proficient. Not the ship that can magically make coins fall from the sky and land in the fat cats wallet.

No i have not offered alternatives here because i think this is so far off track it needs to be scrapped and go back to the OP by Jessy and work from there. Yes i agree there were some holes, so discuss with us what those were and we can help with the suggestions to establish a new flagship concept.

[sXs]

Here are the basics.

1. Everyone should have a flagship. Vane is correct, the flagship was the lead most powerful ship in a fleet. But it wasn't historically only in war fleets. Many of the Spanish trade fleets had flagships with upgraded battle capabilities to try and protect the goods carried by the trade ship.

2. Mechanics for upgrading are based on use. Experience is the trigger. (Evertone loves this approach).

3. Benefits of owning a flagship must incentivize everyone to build and upgrade a flagship. The example I gave is this. It would be hard for my to steal, display, and sail Sir Henry's flagship if he never builds one.

4. Flagships cannot be "superships". They need to be strong , customizable, but not invincible. This is also the reason once captured, they lose the attributes. Each player can have only a flagship. If you capture one that is better equipped than the one sailing you have the option of making the captured ship your own flagship. But you can not have a fleet of flagships. This could possibly become the " invincible" fleet.

5. There needs to be a cost to build and upgrade.

The reasons for the tie ins were to motivate everyone to build and use a flagship. What good is it for pirates only to have them. I would think pirates would want the "big prize".

These are the core ideas behind flagships. The only things in the current post that need to remain all relate to those 6 items.

I believe Hawk has stated everything else is open for discussion. But we need suggestions that fit into these points.

As written, it is not set in stone. If a point is not liked or doesn't seem to fit, please suggest something to replace it that adheres to the core idea or actually improves them.

[sXs]

I feel we are "stepping over dollars to pick up dimes" with this topic.

I think what Stan said is valid. Without blockades, etc. a flagship serves little purpose. Perhaps we are putting the cart in front of the horse.

Actually it is the other way around. Flagships are the horse. Blockades and such can not be put into development without something to use as a trigger. Flagships will be the trigger.

Kind of hard to blackade without a ship.

[Shadowood]

4. Flagships cannot be "superships". They need to be strong , customizable, but not invincible. This is also the reason once captured, they lose the attributes.
What good is it for pirates only to have them. I would think pirates would want the "big prize".

But if I steal a Flagship that is a Frigate made by the infamous Charles Vane, and it goes back to just being a Frigate worth 15 credits... Where is the prize?

I do believe the Flagships should retain some "quality", maybe a base quality to make them worthy of pirating. Perhaps they don't retain all of their upgrades, but they need something to be of value. If not, then why have them?

Also, until voodoo is taken out of the game, there will never be a fleet that is Invincible. There will never be a ship that is fully Invincible. Fire ship is one of the most powerful and over looked voodoo and makes the strongest Ship, weak.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I always find it useful to reference historical facts and use them as a guide to possible mechanics.
Yes the pirates flagship should be battle-worthy. They historically carried large crews not to serve their guns primarily but to board and take control of prizes. Thus we should look at what benefits would reflect that. Better chance to plunder and/or steal is the obvious one.
For nations the Flagship led a battle group. It was the 'HQ' for the Admiral in command. But the benefits of this form of flag-ship lie in PVP - battle fleet against battle fleet. They would lead and impose blockades, guard landing parties and be the Big Stick of nation diplomacy.
For traders we could look at a set-up like the East India Company : their flagship was for the Commodore who commanded a trade convoy. Their prime vessels would be armed heavily but not all the fleet. They were guardships.. not line-of-battle ships. Historically the EIC avoided such battles for generally they would lose. But against lesser armed pirates they acted as a deterrent. Would there be trade benefits? Yes.. but not for their whole economic empire. But for a good Commodore who brought his fleet home unmolested and speedily benefits there were.
But in the end little could face down a prime battle fleet : little could face down even a single trained warship so national warships would be kings.
Pirates dealt with this sad fact by avoiding conflict with them Their tactics were hit and run on unsuspecting traders not PVP with 40-50-60 gun warships even if their own ship was comparable : their gunnery never was. Plus there was no profit in it, just survival which was always best served by sailing very fast in the other direction. And thats were their bonuses should also reflect fact.

[DezNutz]

4. Flagships cannot be "superships". They need to be strong , customizable, but not invincible. This is also the reason once captured, they lose the attributes.
What good is it for pirates only to have them. I would think pirates would want the "big prize".

But if I steal a Flagship that is a Frigate made by the infamous Charles Vane, and it goes back to just being a Frigate worth 15 credits... Where is the prize?

I do believe the Flagships should retain some "quality", maybe a base quality to make them worthy of pirating. Perhaps they don't retain all of their upgrades, but they need something to be of value. If not, then why have them?

Also, until voodoo is taken out of the game, there will never be a fleet that is Invincible. There will never be a ship that is fully Invincible. Fire ship is one of the most powerful and over looked voodoo and makes the strongest Ship, weak.

The perks are retained but disabled if you already possess a flagship. You can use the perks and switch flagships for a price.

[Banger]

4. Flagships cannot be "superships". They need to be strong , customizable, but not invincible. This is also the reason once captured, they lose the attributes.
What good is it for pirates only to have them. I would think pirates would want the "big prize".

But if I steal a Flagship that is a Frigate made by the infamous Charles Vane, and it goes back to just being a Frigate worth 15 credits... Where is the prize?

I do believe the Flagships should retain some "quality", maybe a base quality to make them worthy of pirating. Perhaps they don't retain all of their upgrades, but they need something to be of value. If not, then why have them?

Also, until voodoo is taken out of the game, there will never be a fleet that is Invincible. There will never be a ship that is fully Invincible. Fire ship is one of the most powerful and over looked voodoo and makes the strongest Ship, weak.

The perks are retained but disabled if you already possess a flagship. You can use the perks and switch flagships for a price.

Which is essentially worthless. This whole idea is so bastardized now it's a joke lol. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya while we all have are sUpEr AwEsOmEsT FlAgShIps. wE aLl GeT aWeSoMe ShIpS gUyS, iSnT tHiS gReAt?

[DezNutz]

The perks are retained but disabled if you already possess a flagship. You can use the perks and switch flagships for a price.

Which is essentially worthless. This whole idea is so bastardized now it's a joke lol. Let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya while we all have are sUpEr AwEsOmEsT FlAgShIps. wE aLl GeT aWeSoMe ShIpS gUyS, iSnT tHiS gReAt?

How is it essentially worthless?
If you don't have a flagship and you steal one, you now have a flagship that someone else leveled up.
If you have a flagship and steal one, you can switch flagships or keep the one you have. The flagship you choose not to utilize will have its upgrades and perks disabled, and the upgrades and perks on the other active flagship will be active. The flagship that's disabled still retains its abilities and a notice that it was a flagship, but if it is involved in PvP Battle, it can't level up further nor use its flagship bonuses as it is no longer an active flagship.


You can't possess more than one active flagship. You can't have stacks of flagships with all their abilities active. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

Furthermore, the original suggestion limited a player (albeit a pirate) to 1 active flagship. So what exactly is your complaint?

[Banger]

My complaint is tied to exactly what Shadow says. Flagships aren't apples to apples because they aren't all going to be the same ship (sotl, frig, LF, etc.) So if I have a badass LF flagship and I steal a badass frig flagship it should have some value to it other than a pedestrian frig that is worth 15 credits. So allowing it to have at least some advantage over a standard frig albeit nominal would still make it worth while versus just stealing a flagship and having it be relegated back to a standard ship because I already have a higher class flagship that I don't want to replace.

Additionally my complaint is that we are trying so hard to make the ship so loveable for all that we are diluting it down to where it will end up just like MoWs are today, under utilized and more of a trophy than a practical vessel.