Official Training Guild/Academy for New Players

[Meliva]

I disagree that this would be ineffective to helping increase the percentage of players to stay. Though I agree that finding the right mentors for the job might prove challenging. A large percentage of active players were once part of a training guild, many players also state that it was largely thanks to the community they remained, I myself probably would have quit if not for HELM inviting me in. To establish a mandatory training guild that players automatically get sorted in may be beneficial, and I think it certainly deserves a chance. It wouldn't even need to keep and train players for very long- just long enough to help them decide what path they wish to take and point them into a guild that may help them in that path. Wanna be a pirate? well go to the PIRAT guild, or maybe MERC. And the tutors wouldn't need to be 100% self efficient either Dez, since the Tutors could support each other. And I would hope many players would hold some measure of respect for those players and not hit them particularly hard unwarranted.

Most players don't start, let alone complete the tutorials. I'm sure CJ posted that on another thread. This will do nothing to keep additional players. You would need the mentors to be online constantly monitoring the join queue and messaging the new player as soon as they join. It doesn't take very much game play to see if you are going to like the game or not.

Mentors shouldn't be guiding players to specific guilds.

So the mentors should get a free pass in game play because they are working to help new players. They are no different than anyone else, why should they not get hit in the same manner as someone who doesn't have a guild or is in a weak guild. And how many mentors would be needed. It is a beginners guild.

As well, the whole community point falls flat as once a player reaches a certain point, they get booted from the guild. Welcome to the beginners guild. We are here to help you until you reach a certain point at which you will be kicked out and have to join a real training guild or guild that fits your needs. That's a great message to send to players.

Firstly- I Did not say tutors should get a free pass, I said I HOPE, many players would respect what they are doing and therefore not hit them aggressively. If I ever went pirate I personally wouldn't target anyone who I believe is trying to help newbies such as mentors in training guilds. But that's just me.
Secondly, what I meant by pointing them to a certain guild, is if said player wishes to play a certain style, and wish to know which guilds support that style, the mentor could tell them which guilds would be a good choice. Since this would be a temporary guild, I think it would be perfectly fine for the mentors to make suggestions as to which guilds may be a good choice to move onto- So long as they make sure to avoid any bias, which I admit could be a problem.

An alternative to this suggestion, is something I heard another player suggest somewhere though I forget the player who suggested it, in that there be an auto-invite guilds can use to help provide new players a guild to join immediately, though I think this feature should be given only to training guilds, but that's just my opinion.

[DezNutz]

Coercing new players into staying???

You lost me Dez, just when I thought I was beginning to catch up.

Where did you see anything in my suggestion that even hinted at anything like coercing new players into staying in the game?

We are talking about Deznutz here. He spins everything around. Always has, always will.

And no one has said anything about booting anyone out of the training guild either.

Try reading what is written. Maybe English isnt your first language, but your statements are pretty straight forward and clear to their meaning. There is no spin.

The suggestion is simply geared toward the idea of providing a way for them to connect with something that will keep them around long enough to see what they are walking away from.

A player that is intent on leaving is going to leave. Trying to convince them to stay, even for a short time, is a form of persuasion. Using a game mechanism to do that is boarder line coercion.

New members would remain in the starter's guild until a certain level of tutorials had been completed, at which point they would graduate out.

I guess you are just going to ask them to leave the training guild, and if they don't want to leave they just stay there? Based on what was stated in the suggestion, once a player reaches a certain level, they are "graduated" from the guild. As this would be a game function it would be automatic. They would be booted from the guild. You can call it graduating all you want.

You guys should read and comprehend what your suggestions actually says. I don't have to spin your words, you state the intentions straight forward.

[DezNutz]

Firstly- I Did not say tutors should get a free pass, I said I HOPE, many players would respect what they are doing and therefore not hit them aggressively. If I ever went pirate I personally wouldn't target anyone who I believe is trying to help newbies such as mentors in training guilds. But that's just me.
Secondly, what I meant by pointing them to a certain guild, is if said player wishes to play a certain style, and wish to know which guilds support that style, the mentor could tell them which guilds would be a good choice. Since this would be a temporary guild, I think it would be perfectly fine for the mentors to make suggestions as to which guilds may be a good choice to move onto- So long as they make sure to avoid any bias, which I admit could be a problem.

An alternative to this suggestion, is something I heard another player suggest somewhere though I forget the player who suggested it, in that there be an auto-invite guilds can use to help provide new players a guild to join immediately, though I think this feature should be given only to training guilds, but that's just my opinion.

I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

There are plenty of players out there that support new players and they don't need this mechanism to do so. Stan Rogers has commented on both his own activities and guilds that do this quite efficiently, and how it does not necessarily make a difference with getting players to stay. As well, why would they use a new mechanic which could potentially leave them vulnerable, to an extent, when they can do the same work while still maintaining a higher level of support and security.

The existing training guilds, even though they may contain newer players is still made up of a good amount of veteran players. This new training guild will be all new players with exception to the few mentors. How many mentors would you expect there to be for a feature that will have a quick turnover of players? I would think only a few. Those mentors will have a very limited support system to work with, which I can see a few opportunists taken advantage of. I see that as major negative.

I understand what you meant by the guilds. The problem I see is that unless they provide a full list of all guilds that meet the criteria, they are providing biased data. Even if there is no intent to be biased, every player has preferences and experiences that will sway the information that they provide. Additionally as not every player has the same experiences and knowledge, how many veteran players with the adequate knowledge are going to be wasted on this guild, just so they can pass the players onto another guild. Veteran players would be more useful in full training guilds, not just the starting ropes. The starting ropes are what the tutorials are for. The tutorials provide the basic information. There is a tutorial that rewards the player for joining a guild. This suggestion is just waste.

I remember the suggestion about the auto-invite. It should be limited to training guilds only and should only be an invitation that the player still has to accept. IIRC, I supported the suggestion. Would have to revisit that, but I think that suggestion is far better than this.

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

So connecting them to other players in a social setting right from the start, with the hope that doing so encourages them to stay long enough to get an idea on how the game works before they make the choice to leave, is coercion?

Creating something akin to a training academy (I think I've been clear from the start that we are not talking about a normal guild here), that they would start out in and something that they would eventually graduate out of is the same as booting them from a guild?

Your logic is hard to argue with, Dez.

By definition, a beginner's training academy would be only for beginners. Once they reached a certain point in quests/tutorials they would have a choice where to go from there. Again, we are not talking about a normal guild here. I would also imagine they could drop out whenever they wanted to, should they decide they wanted to skip out to an actual guild or on their own before completing the tasks.

I am puzzled as to why you are trying to derail the conversation. No one is assaulting or insulting you, but you are doing both to those who are in favor of the discussion for no good reason that I can see. I'm fairly new here in the grand scheme of things, and perhaps this is the norm for you and you find it entertaining.

I think I'll ignore you from here on out though, at least in regard to this post, unless you have an actual suggestion on the topic other than to tell everyone whose commented in favor to quit talking about it. You've made it clear you would vote no on the idea. Duly noted. Thank you for voting.

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

This is not the first time such an idea has been suggested. Up until recently, 90% of Ayes members were new recruits or relatively new players.
Many players like to explore the game dynamics on their own as a challenge to their sense of adventure before they join a guild and I understand that part of it.
If they like the basic game dynamics, they will end up in a guild and at that point, realize there are lots more "things" about the game than is obvious to a new comer.
Some do not want to be a burden to a guild until they at least know the basics of getting around and earning a few coins.

I also have brought in brand new people fresh on their first log in to Ayes guild and provided cash, ships, advice how to grow and be profitable and the players are grateful and enjoy the game for a few days or even a few weeks/months and then disappear. I'll assume the dynamic did not appeal to them the way it does with others.

All the mentioned aspects in previous posts do help in player retention but it is still hit or miss.
There have been training guilds formed solely dedicated to helping new players get started and only recruit new players and they contribute considerable to generating interest in new players but there is no magic formula to get the basic retention numbers we seek.

I think there is a "join a guild" training bonus much like the bonus to post in the forum but been too long since I joined to remember correctly, but, again if Admin thought it was a good idea to automatically put new sign-ups into a special guild, the opportunity and similar idea's has been presented numerous times in the past.

Thanks Sir Thalius for expressing such a keen interest in seeing the game grow larger.

Thank you for the info on previous discussion on the subject. I could not find anything quite like what I suggested in this post when I did a quick scan of forum search results. I suppose I will have to take some time to look over the forums a bit more closely and see what I can come up with.

Being in a guild that has a significant focus on connecting with and recruiting new players, it is frustrating to see how many leave without ever getting far enough to see anything the game offers. I know I'm not the first to see that or comment on it. I can't help but think though, that if there was a way to connect them with players faster, some may catch a glimpse of our interest and satisfaction with the game and be curious enough to look farther than the first screen or two.

[Dejanira]

I have been thinking over something for some time now, and shared a few discussions on the issue. What I am offering here is partly to make a suggestion, but mostly to request opinions/suggestions on the subject. I could not find anything in a quick search of the forum on this issue. Forgive me if it is there and I missed it...

The subject is that of establishing an official Starter's Guild to catch new players. (Open to better name suggestions. Would prefer it, actually. Something in character with the game. Just putting some thoughts out for discussion here.)

Anyone paying attention sees how many come to the game and leave before they get past the first mission. The training guilds send invites, but the new players have to get far enough to want to accept the invitation before the invite means anything.

I wanted to solicit thoughts on the idea of automatically starting new players out in a starter's guild.

The guild would be overseen by experience players that solicited admin for the role of overseer within the starter guild. Or perhaps that Admin hand picks to offer the role. This could change from time to time if needed. Admin would provide oversight to make sure there is no manipulation going on by the overseers, but all advice/tutoring would come from the players/overseers.

New members would remain in the starter's guild until a certain level of tutorials had been completed, at which point they would graduate out. From there they could go where they pleased- one of the other recognized training guilds that could help them progress to the next level in their game, or one of the other guilds they have connected with during their initial training phase. Or on their own, should they so choose.

Point of the auto entry in to a starter's guild would be to get new players into a community as fast as possible. PG is huge on community. I think it would help retain players if they started out in community with others in a similar position they are, asking questions and working through things together (overseen by experienced players).

New player retention is the reason for the suggestion. More players are good for the game, which makes it more fun for everyone. And that is the point, no?

Having been trained in Ravenlocke and now a leader in a merchant training guild, I have been watching new players come and go in huge numbers daily. I know I am not the only one.

I am trying to think through ways that new players could be "caught" before they click away from the first page because they don't know what comes next in a text based game. Being immersed into a community right from the start, I believe, could help with that.

Respectfully submitted,

~TH~

Bump and a +1.

[DezNutz]

Reading through this again, I still think this feature is not worthwhile. A more in depth tutorial system would be better.

Forcing a new player into a training guild, just to boot them out automatically once they reach a certain point is a poor idea at best.

[Dejanira]

Forcing a new player into a training guild, just to boot them out automatically once they reach a certain point is a poor idea at best.

It couldn't be an automata doing that, there are people behind accounts. I give my +1 coz a training guild did exist when I joined the game and that had been a reason I fell in that 10% of players that decide to stay after registering.

[DezNutz]

Forcing a new player into a training guild, just to boot them out automatically once they reach a certain point is a poor idea at best.

It couldn't be an automata doing that, there are people behind accounts. I give my +1 coz a training guild did exist when I joined the game and that had been a reason I fell in that 10% of players that decide to stay after registering.

Please read the below from the first post of the topic.

New members would remain in the starter's guild until a certain level of tutorials had been completed, at which point they would graduate out.

As other players cannot directly monitor a players tutorial completion level, this must be an action that is managed by the game itself. In so being a game function, the point of completion would trigger the game to graduate them out. As they can't stay in the starter guild beyond that point, that player would be graduated/removed/kicked out/booted from the starter guild. The system can send some sappy message along with it, but the action would be automatic and would be as described in my previous sentence.

I'm not mincing words. The short version is once they reach a certain point, they get automatically kicked from the guild.

Now if you are telling me that they don't get automatically removed, I would love to hear about how they would be removed. Because outside of it being automatic, the suggestion would be nothing but a tool to force players to join the starter/training guild that isn't managed by players and not be forced to leave. Since they wouldn't be forced out automatically, why would they leave the guild to join another training guild. Why would players get to know a few players, get comfortable playing the game, and then leave on there own.

I'm not seeing a benefit to this. Training guilds already exist, as does a tutorial mission to join a guild. Improving the tutorials, to include the order in which the missions are laid out is better than this suggestion.

[OG Deadking]

I have been thinking over something for some time now, and shared a few discussions on the issue. What I am offering here is partly to make a suggestion, but mostly to request opinions/suggestions on the subject. I could not find anything in a quick search of the forum on this issue. Forgive me if it is there and I missed it...

The subject is that of establishing an official Starter's Guild to catch new players. (Open to better name suggestions. Would prefer it, actually. Something in character with the game. Just putting some thoughts out for discussion here.)

Anyone paying attention sees how many come to the game and leave before they get past the first mission. The training guilds send invites, but the new players have to get far enough to want to accept the invitation before the invite means anything.

I wanted to solicit thoughts on the idea of automatically starting new players out in a starter's guild.

The guild would be overseen by experience players that solicited admin for the role of overseer within the starter guild. Or perhaps that Admin hand picks to offer the role. This could change from time to time if needed. Admin would provide oversight to make sure there is no manipulation going on by the overseers, but all advice/tutoring would come from the players/overseers.

New members would remain in the starter's guild until a certain level of tutorials had been completed, at which point they would graduate out. From there they could go where they pleased- one of the other recognized training guilds that could help them progress to the next level in their game, or one of the other guilds they have connected with during their initial training phase. Or on their own, should they so choose.

Point of the auto entry in to a starter's guild would be to get new players into a community as fast as possible. PG is huge on community. I think it would help retain players if they started out in community with others in a similar position they are, asking questions and working through things together (overseen by experienced players).

New player retention is the reason for the suggestion. More players are good for the game, which makes it more fun for everyone. And that is the point, no?

Having been trained in Ravenlocke and now a leader in a merchant training guild, I have been watching new players come and go in huge numbers daily. I know I am not the only one.

I am trying to think through ways that new players could be "caught" before they click away from the first page because they don't know what comes next in a text based game. Being immersed into a community right from the start, I believe, could help with that.

Respectfully submitted,

~TH~

Bump and a +1.

+1