Port Blockades (Large)

[Most Lee Harmless]

Keep the engagement rules the same for both sides then : a given fleet can only engage once per hour slot? On the counters side, once the attacking fleet repairs, it is barred from further engagement for 24 hrs... that should stop multiple winnowing attacks from a single fleet. if the counter wishes to wear down the blockade, it will require more fleets to do so, and thus more time taken = more loss of income.

It must be possible to break the blockade within a reasonable time period : equally, it must be possible to maintain it given a weak or poorly led counter-force. Thats the tough balance to reach : achievable but not inevitable.

[sXs]

Here is quick run down of how I would setup this feature.

Blockade can be started by anyone.
Initiating a blockade costs gc and turns.
Initiator must have a MoW in the first fleet.
24 hour period from initiation for players to join with any number of fleets.
Anyone can join in on the blockade
Fleets added must have at minimum of 3 warships.
After 24 hours ends, blockade begins.
Blockade blocks naval traffic to port as defined by the initiator.
Blockade rules could be similar to stated in section 4 ACTIVE BLOCKADE of the the OP.
Once the blockade starts only players that are already part of the blockade can add fleets.
Fleets do not need to be present to be added to the blockade; however, once selected to be added, the fleets are routed to the blockade.
Fleets that are in the blockade can only be effected by attacking the blockade.
Voodoo can not be used on the blockade fleets.
Fleets in the blockade remain in the blockade until the blockade ends.
Ship repairs can only occur before the blockade starts, before the fleet is added to the blockade (if blockade is active), or after the blockade ends. (Could possibly allow a 1 per day repair that repairs only x% of the total HP lost at a significant cost)
Blockade ends at the first game update after all fleets in the blockade are "sunk"
No fleets can be added if all current fleets are "sunk".
Anyone can attack the blockade.
To attack a blockade, the attacking fleet only needs to be at the port.
Attacking a blockade gains normal danger
Attacking a blockade costs double turns.
Attacking the blockade fights a random floating fleet in the blockade.
Attacking the blockade functions similar to plunder. Winner gets plunder reward, minus ship plunder (Can't steal ships from a blockade fleet)
Once blockade ends, 24 hours for those that blockaded to leave blockade.
All fleets that blockaded receive 54 danger.
MoW cannot be placed in a Marina for 72 hours after blockade ends.
Another blockade cannot be implemented on the port for 48 hours after a blockade ends.


Simple and straight forward setup. Obviously there would need to be some items elaborated on, and adjustments would need to be made, but I think this would be more straight forward as a blockade than what is currently suggested.

Are you suggesting this as a complete rework of what CJ Proposed?

[sXs]

So If I am understanding this correctly, you want all blockade fleet of the attackers, locked into the blockade until it is broken, Yet anyone can attack a blockade as they see fit? Are their fleets then also locked in place? I mean if the fail to break the blockade it would mean they are "sunk" so they should be locked in place as well. Also If anyone can attack the blockade at anytime, then anyone can join the blockade at anytime. This is where this falls apart. How do you determine payouts.

also anyone can attack a blockade at anytime yet initiators fleets still subject to random once and no control. If attackers have no control then neither do defenders. Equal rules on both sides.


Second point, all fleets receive 72 danger. I am fine with this as long as all defending fleets receive it as well.

[Haron]

Keep the engagement rules the same for both sides then : a given fleet can only engage once per hour slot? On the counters side, once the attacking fleet repairs, it is barred from further engagement for 24 hrs... that should stop multiple winnowing attacks from a single fleet. if the counter wishes to wear down the blockade, it will require more fleets to do so, and thus more time taken = more loss of income.

It must be possible to break the blockade within a reasonable time period : equally, it must be possible to maintain it given a weak or poorly led counter-force. Thats the tough balance to reach : achievable but not inevitable.

This seems like an interesting path to take. And I absolutely agree on that last part; finding the right balance is important.

[DezNutz]

Spoiler: show

Here is quick run down of how I would setup this feature.

Blockade can be started by anyone.
Initiating a blockade costs gc and turns.
Initiator must have a MoW in the first fleet.
24 hour period from initiation for players to join with any number of fleets.
Anyone can join in on the blockade
Fleets added must have at minimum of 3 warships.
After 24 hours ends, blockade begins.
Blockade blocks naval traffic to port as defined by the initiator.
Blockade rules could be similar to stated in section 4 ACTIVE BLOCKADE of the the OP.
Once the blockade starts only players that are already part of the blockade can add fleets.
Fleets do not need to be present to be added to the blockade; however, once selected to be added, the fleets are routed to the blockade.
Fleets that are in the blockade can only be effected by attacking the blockade.
Voodoo can not be used on the blockade fleets.
Fleets in the blockade remain in the blockade until the blockade ends.
Ship repairs can only occur before the blockade starts, before the fleet is added to the blockade (if blockade is active), or after the blockade ends. (Could possibly allow a 1 per day repair that repairs only x% of the total HP lost at a significant cost)
Blockade ends at the first game update after all fleets in the blockade are "sunk"
No fleets can be added if all current fleets are "sunk".
Anyone can attack the blockade.
To attack a blockade, the attacking fleet only needs to be at the port.
Attacking a blockade gains normal danger
Attacking a blockade costs double turns.
Attacking the blockade fights a random floating fleet in the blockade.
Attacking the blockade functions similar to plunder. Winner gets plunder reward, minus ship plunder (Can't steal ships from a blockade fleet)
Once blockade ends, 24 hours for those that blockaded to leave blockade.
All fleets that blockaded receive 54 danger.
MoW cannot be placed in a Marina for 72 hours after blockade ends.
Another blockade cannot be implemented on the port for 48 hours after a blockade ends.


Simple and straight forward setup. Obviously there would need to be some items elaborated on, and adjustments would need to be made, but I think this would be more straight forward as a blockade than what is currently suggested.

Are you suggesting this as a complete rework of what CJ Proposed?

Yes, but obviously there would need some elaborations on parts of it, and some parts can be changed completely. A rework is definitely needed. Danik has an idea as well which uses some points that I have brought up and I like some of his points that he has added.

Keep the engagement rules the same for both sides then : a given fleet can only engage once per hour slot? On the counters side, once the attacking fleet repairs, it is barred from further engagement for 24 hrs... that should stop multiple winnowing attacks from a single fleet. if the counter wishes to wear down the blockade, it will require more fleets to do so, and thus more time taken = more loss of income.

It must be possible to break the blockade within a reasonable time period : equally, it must be possible to maintain it given a weak or poorly led counter-force. Thats the tough balance to reach : achievable but not inevitable.

Definitely like that. Keeps it fair so a single fleet can't take down a blockade by repeatedly attacking.

[Most Lee Harmless]

So If I am understanding this correctly, you want all blockade fleet of the attackers, locked into the blockade until it is broken, Yet anyone can attack a blockade as they see fit? Are their fleets then also locked in place? I mean if the fail to break the blockade it would mean they are "sunk" so they should be locked in place as well. Also If anyone can attack the blockade at anytime, then anyone can join the blockade at anytime. This is where this falls apart. How do you determine payouts.

also anyone can attack a blockade at anytime yet initiators fleets still subject to random once and no control. If attackers have no control then neither do defenders. Equal rules on both sides.


Second point, all fleets receive 72 danger. I am fine with this as long as all defending fleets receive it as well.

Yes, all blockade fleets are locked into the blockade until it is ended, either broken or retired. Counter fleets are not locked in, but as soon as they repair, they are locked out for 24hrs.

Yes, anyone can counter the blockade, by making a run at it : anyone can join the blockade, if permitted to by the Initiating Admiral.

Payouts : if the blockade defeats the runner, the winning fleet gains plunder, as per usual metrics. I'd include scraps and piracy bonus in that too. If the runner succeeds and defeats the blockade fleet, then it takes plunder off the defeated fleet, as per usual metric.

Separate to the battle plunder is the trade tax income of the port : each hour turn, if the blockade is in place, that income is passed to the Blockade fleet : from there it is distributed to all those who contributed to the blockade in that preceding hour. Exact means of distribution are up for debate : fleet shares, damage shares, maybe that is something for the Blockade Admiral to decide when starting the blockade. As said, there is room for Nation Bounties and Letters of Marque for both sides to add to pay-outs.

The blockade fleet has no control of when a runner will hit, yes : equally, the counterforce doesnt know what fleets it faces, or how many, or when any may be added : the blockade is 'over the horizon' and thus unknown. So, if a runner makes an attempt to break through (that is, to try and damage a blockade fleet enough to remove it from play) it has no idea what it may be facing : howkers or Mows, fully fit or almost totally damaged : thus, its random for both sides already.

I havent considered the danger aspects yet ( under this proposal), so cant answer for others views on them, how much or where applied.

What I have offered is what has been demanded : an alternative which accommodates the concerns raised and offers some answer to them : this way, I see motive and reward for both initiator and counter : I see this way as establishing easily and quickly if a blockade exists, and when it is broken. or ended.

If it aint enough, so be it. Just dont expect me to keep throwing out answers when the only one you want to hear is 'CJ's proposal is the only way'. Thats boring.

[sXs]

So If I am understanding this correctly, you want all blockade fleet of the attackers, locked into the blockade until it is broken, Yet anyone can attack a blockade as they see fit? Are their fleets then also locked in place? I mean if the fail to break the blockade it would mean they are "sunk" so they should be locked in place as well. Also If anyone can attack the blockade at anytime, then anyone can join the blockade at anytime. This is where this falls apart. How do you determine payouts.

also anyone can attack a blockade at anytime yet initiators fleets still subject to random once and no control. If attackers have no control then neither do defenders. Equal rules on both sides.


Second point, all fleets receive 72 danger. I am fine with this as long as all defending fleets receive it as well.

Yes, all blockade fleets are locked into the blockade until it is ended, either broken or retired. Counter fleets are not locked in, but as soon as they repair, they are locked out for 24hrs.

Yes, anyone can counter the blockade, by making a run at it : anyone can join the blockade, if permitted to by the Initiating Admiral.

Payouts : if the blockade defeats the runner, the winning fleet gains plunder, as per usual metrics. I'd include scraps and piracy bonus in that too. If the runner succeeds and defeats the blockade fleet, then it takes plunder off the defeated fleet, as per usual metric.

Separate to the battle plunder is the trade tax income of the port : each hour turn, if the blockade is in place, that income is passed to the Blockade fleet : from there it is distributed to all those who contributed to the blockade in that preceding hour. Exact means of distribution are up for debate : fleet shares, damage shares, maybe that is something for the Blockade Admiral to decide when starting the blockade. As said, there is room for Nation Bounties and Letters of Marque for both sides to add to pay-outs.

The blockade fleet has no control of when a runner will hit, yes : equally, the counterforce doesnt know what fleets it faces, or how many, or when any may be added : the blockade is 'over the horizon' and thus unknown. So, if a runner makes an attempt to break through (that is, to try and damage a blockade fleet enough to remove it from play) it has no idea what it may be facing : howkers or Mows, fully fit or almost totally damaged : thus, its random for both sides already.

I havent considered the danger aspects yet ( under this proposal), so cant answer for others views on them, how much or where applied.

What I have offered is what has been demanded : an alternative which accommodates the concerns raised and offers some answer to them : this way, I see motive and reward for both initiator and counter : I see this way as establishing easily and quickly if a blockade exists, and when it is broken. or ended.

If it aint enough, so be it. Just dont expect me to keep throwing out answers when the only one you want to hear is 'CJ's proposal is the only way'. Thats boring.

Sorry, misunderstood some points.... let me re read again

[Most Lee Harmless]

Using the dynamic blockade model I suggest, I do see some room for 'sneak' blockades : even using a small number of fleets, it would be possible to snare a goodly amount of tax income plunder before the counterforce gets its act together, gathers its fleets and breaks back.

It would also encourage using big ship fleets, as the plunder gains will mount up, plus the continuing loss of income may well encourage the counter force to use more powerful fleets itself. I like Dez's idea of a minimum number of warships in any blockade fleet. Again, it adds to the unknown risks of engagement.

I think the 'fog of war' element is also exciting : no-one knows just what they face, in numbers or power, and it will only be as the event progresses that either side will start to get a feel for that.

I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe the blockading fleets should not be put into too much DP as a result of the action. I see the counter fleets as gaining the usual danger for their attempts to break the line and suffering the usual consequences of being lit.

Actually, a smart move may well be to have some hit fleets inside the port ready to target any lit runner fleet before they repair : though I imagine enough opportunists will have already gathered.

Perhaps we should look at an escalating DP gain : calculated per day of blockade : the longer the blockade feeds on plunder, the more danger its fleets will gain. The more attempts to break the blockade, the more danger those counter fleets gain : with a nasty twist : they cannot repair without taking themselves out of action for 24hrs : there's a dialemma!

[sXs]

Using the dynamic blockade model I suggest, I do see some room for 'sneak' blockades : even using a small number of fleets, it would be possible to snare a goodly amount of tax income plunder before the counterforce gets its act together, gathers its fleets and breaks back.

It would also encourage using big ship fleets, as the plunder gains will mount up, plus the continuing loss of income may well encourage the counter force to use more powerful fleets itself. I like Dez's idea of a minimum number of warships in any blockade fleet. Again, it adds to the unknown risks of engagement.

I think the 'fog of war' element is also exciting : no-one knows just what they face, in numbers or power, and it will only be as the event progresses that either side will start to get a feel for that.

I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe the blockading fleets should not be put into too much DP as a result of the action. I see the counter fleets as gaining the usual danger for their attempts to break the line and suffering the usual consequences of being lit.

Perhaps we should look at an escalating DP gain : calculated per day of blockade : the longer the blockade feeds on plunder, the more danger it will gain.

I like a lot of this. I agree with "the fog of war" aspect. Still considering danger aspects. It need to be more than normal game mechanics for attackers simply because there is the possibility of and attacking fleet exiting a blockade with 0 danger if normal mechanics were in play. I am not sure as to what is a fair number per fleet.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Aye : its a bit messy : should each trade vessel stopped and taxed and/or plundered count as an action warranting danger gain? That could become very unwieldy so maybe a simple daily DP gain should cover the blockade fleets actions. If a fleet is hit by a runner, it should lose some danger, maybe not the full 18 points though. This would 'reward' active fleets who contributed to the fight. Perhaps also, when sunk ( all ships at 99% damage) the fleet stops gaining danger, but will not lose any until the blockade ends.

just some thoughts.