Witch Doctors gameplay - manageable risk for everyone

[Grimrock Litless]

"New ability: Voodoo Card Pillaging
via PvP Battles

Rules:
-Whenever a fleet wins a battle, it has a chance to steal a voodoo card.

The chance can be relative to past successes or own fleet size (the more ships you got, the better) or enemy fleet size or a combination of these, etc.

Or we could add this as a Ship Ability and trigger it on ship win rather on fleet win.


Mainly, we are looking for ideas to increase risk beyond the traditional scope of damage via voodoo to everything and damage from ships to ships."

Wouldn't this just be way worst for players with lots of ships / fleets? One could just keep attacking him to raid all his voodoo.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I certainly see a case for switching some of the effects of some voodoo cards towards technologies : an example would be to have shipbuilding techs improve base attribute count as well as the current benefit to the costs of building. A top level ship-builder should be able to build a better ship given the investment in the technology required. Officers contracts should also produce better and more skilled officers : room for benefits more normally granted by cards like Favorable Winds, Treasure Fleets, Bless and Drums, for example. Skirmish tactics should grant powers given by Advanced Piracy, perhaps.

The downside of removing some cards is to upset the current ratios of cards gained : remove say, 30 cards and that increases the chances of gaining the remaining 60 cards : this would create even more of those 60 in circulation.

[DezNutz]

The downside could be easily countered. There are some simple voodoo cards that can be implemented that buff existing features. As a card is phased out, a new card would be added.

[Ziggfried]

I have read some nice replies here (Who is this Broom? 12 posts and nice post). I realize how dearly, some of you, desire battle upgrades. We will press ourselves to deliver faster on this part. I was happy to read solutions and problem identifications. We will keep all of them in mind, or try to at least as the information already posted is plentiful.

Therefore, let's limit the initial scope; let's nail the exact problem we want to solve in priority. Many problems exist and this is why we need to prioritize. One step at a time.

Let's forget about voodoo and ships and focus to what I call toxic gameplay. I have seen examples of such in the past. Such examples, most commonly end with one of the players abandoning the game. Obviously, this is our main issue here; we do not want players to leave, especially veterans.

We mostly care for the gameplay part here as people might leave for a gazillion of reasons. They will be replenished anyway (hey, have you seen Broom's post btw? ) sooner or later by fresh blood. We cannot really control the rest of the reasons so let's focus to what we can control.



Here are two parts of the game that currently allow toxic gameplay:

1)Ability to indefinitely attack someone through any way
You need to understand, in case you are not yet aware, that as long as you are active, you can be a real pain to anyone if you know what to do. Sure you can be limited and kept at bay but for how long one will lose his daily time to do this?

The number #1 way to attack is VOODOO. Cheap voodoo can be very annoying which gives the aggressor the upper hand. So, if someone wants to grief someone, he cans. That's something that should stop.

2)Frequent grieving between same enemies
Let's assume that there are two players hating each other. They end up fighting frequently. At some point, it is only natural that at least one of the side gets tired of this. Still, there is no real way out. Even if you fix #1 and people are not able to attack indefinitely each other, you will still not solve this part. Frequent strife against the same person can be toxic as well.

We need to be realistic though and acknowledge that both indefinitely and frequent attacks are rare.

What is not rare though, is the no-risk gameplay which if fixed, can further limit the above scenarios. The no-risk gameplay also creates frustration as those running on risk, are often discouraged.

To be fair, the obvious no-risk gameplay is not so right. Someone running on risk, has greater returns and accumulates more wealth without strife. Someone running at no risk, has less returns and he needs to create strife in order to get more. The latest action alone, is very hard indeed so its not really an issue. What is an issue, at those that sit on no risk but in the same time they do not seek to accumulate wealth but instead, they seek to create strife for other reasons.

It is pretty hard though to even call them out for this, as they obviously have a reason for doing so. I have not brought this discussion up to blame anyone. Everyone should be able to play as he can and remember that every player has his style which is usually relative to the time he has at hand.

What we want to do here, as devs, is to help everyone, including Witch Doctors. Create the game in a way that all sides will have more options. Options were risk will be probably easier to manage, therefore it will worth the trouble.

Right now, the top stake in wars, are ships. So what players do, they get rid of ships when things get troublesome. This is something we could improve.

Lately, we have updated the Sink Chances. We have gave scraps from each level lost. In fact, we have reduced ships risk and increased profit from the other players losses. This made ships risk management easier.

Perhaps the next step forward, is to add more risk that derives from ships. This could be voodoo cards inventory being vulnerable to attacks. Here is the idea I sketched earlier with more details (just an idea):

New Feature: Witch Doctor Hunting
Via Plunder Page

Rules:
-Consume X turns for a Y chance to steal a voodoo card from target enemy.
-Use Power index of ships value to determine Y

For Power index of 45M or more -> Y is 0%
For Power index of 1M or less -> Y is 100%

-Use daily attempts to define X

Minimum 6 turns per attempt.
For every attempt, increase X by 4.

(Sample proposal, more rules can be used to define X,Y,rarity,etc)

New ability: Voodoo Card Pillaging
via PvP Battles

Rules:
-Whenever a fleet wins a battle, it has a chance to steal a voodoo card.

The chance can be relative to past successes or own fleet size (the more ships you got, the better) or enemy fleet size or a combination of these, etc.

Or we could add this as a Ship Ability and trigger it on ship win rather on fleet win.


Mainly, we are looking for ideas to increase risk beyond the traditional scope of damage via voodoo to everything and damage from ships to ships.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I do not recall ever naming Hideouts as invincible. Anyway though, I was not referring to buildings destruction. I said pillaging and I mostly had resources in mind. Still, to be honest, hideouts are not designed for raids. We could create another facility for such usage and most probably, such facilities should be either owned by guilds (a good way to increase guild cooperation) or nations. They can be strongholds/castles/keeps and will be port based of course. Let me not continue this as I will step completely off topic and I have already written a ton.

I feel like this would cause a striff to merchants with lots of ships if a ship has a chance to steal voodoo on a win. Far as witch doctor goes you could do this. Limit the use of voodoo ea person can cast to a set variable of ship amounts. Say I have o ships so I can only cast none harmful voodoo. If I want to cast offense voodoo I need at least 1 fleet worth 10m or 5 fleets worth 10m etc and limit the number of cast per 10m intervals. The more you want to cast the more you have to lose. Also put it where you can't hide ships for 24h after casting harmful voodoo

[Admiral Nelson]

I feel like this would cause a striff to merchants with lots of ships if a ship has a chance to steal voodoo on a win. Far as witch doctor goes you could do this. Limit the use of voodoo ea person can cast to a set variable of ship amounts. Say I have o ships so I can only cast none harmful voodoo. If I want to cast offense voodoo I need at least 1 fleet worth 10m or 5 fleets worth 10m etc and limit the number of cast per 10m intervals. The more you want to cast the more you have to lose. Also put it where you can't hide ships for 24h after casting harmful voodoo

Lul wut

[Shadowood]

I feel like this would cause a striff to merchants with lots of ships if a ship has a chance to steal voodoo on a win. Far as witch doctor goes you could do this. Limit the use of voodoo ea person can cast to a set variable of ship amounts. Say I have o ships so I can only cast none harmful voodoo. If I want to cast offense voodoo I need at least 1 fleet worth 10m or 5 fleets worth 10m etc and limit the number of cast per 10m intervals. The more you want to cast the more you have to lose. Also put it where you can't hide ships for 24h after casting harmful voodoo

Interesting suggestion. One that could have some merit. Can you elaborate how/why you came up with the 10 million gc intervals? How much voodoo would 10 million get you? Do the cards cast now have a gc value put on them? Is this value based on current credit market prices?

A lvl 10 Frig is valued at 4.7 million. So a fleet of 3 Frigs and 2 Cutters would qualify. Is this enough?

[Vane]

I feel like this would cause a striff to merchants with lots of ships if a ship has a chance to steal voodoo on a win. Far as witch doctor goes you could do this. Limit the use of voodoo ea person can cast to a set variable of ship amounts. Say I have o ships so I can only cast none harmful voodoo. If I want to cast offense voodoo I need at least 1 fleet worth 10m or 5 fleets worth 10m etc and limit the number of cast per 10m intervals. The more you want to cast the more you have to lose. Also put it where you can't hide ships for 24h after casting harmful voodoo

*Face Palm*

States CJ's options are a downer to merchants, then proposes to eliminate real piracy..

[Ziggfried]

That would not eliminate pirates as most use solt and usually have 6 fleets running to build new ships. It just face palms your game play style cause you like to abuse every little easy way to win

[Vane]

That would not eliminate pirates as most use solt and usually have 6 fleets running to build new ships. It just face palms your game play style cause you like to abuse every little easy way to win

- Stocking resources, building ships... sounds like a merchant to me? Maybe a shipwright? surely not a pirate...



Most suggestions here keep reverting to crippling one play style or another. I understand the want to stop witch doctor play but much of this hurts pirates sailing one light fleet as well.

Once more, the best option to not harm any play style "except" the WD is too work voodoo effects into game features and both aggressive and passive cards can be done this way. Just use some imagination. This leaves all the effects currently available to players still there, simply obtained through other means but not harming anyone's choice to run 1, 2, 10, or 200 fleets.

[Ziggfried]

That would not eliminate pirates as most use solt and usually have 6 fleets running to build new ships. It just face palms your game play style cause you like to abuse every little easy way to win

- Stocking resources, building ships... sounds like a merchant to me? Maybe a shipwright? surely not a pirate...



Most suggestions here keep reverting to crippling one play style or another. I understand the want to stop witch doctor play but much of this hurts pirates sailing one light fleet as well.

Once more, the best option to not harm any play style "except" the WD is too work voodoo effects into game features and both aggressive and passive cards can be done this way. Just use some imagination. This leaves all the effects currently available to players still there, simply obtained through other means but not harming anyone's choice to run 1, 2, 10, or 200 fleets.

I agree one action does cripple another. The chance to steal voodoo on battle win would cause merchants. Lots of grief. My proposal would limit new pirate from lighting big players until they get better ships yes but it would limit ppl with 20k plus good from lighting everyone with nothing to lose without merchants saying **** this game and all quiting