Merchant versus merchant

[Maha]

the binary option pirate vs. merchant, with the merchant getting better and better in protecting his interests makes the game a bit boring.

what the game is lacking is merchant vs merchant! merchants are not really competing. the fame scale or most profit indicators etc are artificial; that Tom is a better merchant than John does not really hurt John. (while the stronger pirates can and do hurt the weaker pirates)

to make Avonmora less boring we have to find reasons that merchants really have to compete with each other. competition that results in MvM (merchant to merchant) actions and influences the profit they make.
Scarcity creates a need to compete.

Below I will try to create a MvM option:

Ports need import and cover expenses with export , to guarantee a steady import of the needed goods each port offers 2 (*) contracts. One for importing the supplies and one to export the goods they provide. Guilds can submit offers to the port and so compete with other guilds to gain a contract. (the port bureaucracy will handle the contracts, no involvement from players!!!)

Guilds can obtain multiple contracts (stack 5?). With a contract, the guild members will make more profit, how much more will depend on the offer made. A guild keeps his contract until he fails to fulfill his contract. (importing the required cargo or selling the exported goods in a different port)

Guilds can bid to contracts and alter their offer whenever they want. Guilds have to state how much extra gc they want per 1000 crates imported. a lower bid will show on the auction board.
Like the voodoo option all the bids are visible, but not the party who made the offer.

As a guild loses her contract, the contract has to go to another guild. The guild whose offer is on the contract auction board when a contract fails will get the contract. (a contract fails as soon as the daily quota has not been reached three times.)

Each day a list is shown with all the contracts owned by guilds. (this is important to create MvM)
The only way to get a contract is to make the best offer AND to make the contractholding guild to fail their contract. This way we have a MVM option added to the game. Merchants can gain from hurting other merchants.

Contract Failure has no adverse results to the ports.
(*) various options e.g. each supply could be a contract.

[Haron]

I made a suggestion which I believe would lead to more merchant vs merchant interaction, and called it Enhanced Supply and Demand: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2900&hilit=enhanced+supply

Basically, I think that the profit of trading should be much more dependent on how many is selling or buying goods from specific ports. This to give merchants incentives to drive other merchants away from "their" trade routes.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I do think you are being misled by the prominent nature of a handful of mega-merchants into assuming all merchants are equal with equal priorities : personally, I have bugger all interest in being a bigger merchant than any other : their bottom line means little, its my bottom line that matters to me. Contracts? So what? A few extra coins for a major effort and them you want us to go to war over them too? Why, so pirates can then jump in and profit? yeah.. that will work!
If current day pirates aint up to the task of farming merchants, its not the merchants job to provide them with farms they can manage : its the job of the pirates to get better at their own job, not the merchants task to get worse at theirs.
To all the thrill seekers and bored souls, the solution is simple : fly the black flag and get out there and provide the excitement you so crave yourself. Just be careful what you wish for.. the excitement might not stop when you have satisfied you own cravings for it.
Nevermind why we aint out there providing entertainment for you, why aren't you out there providing entertainment for us?

[Maha]

I do think you are being misled by the prominent nature of a handful of mega-merchants into assuming all merchants are equal with equal priorities : personally, I have bugger all interest in being a bigger merchant than any other : their bottom line means little, its my bottom line that matters to me. Contracts? So what? A few extra coins for a major effort and them you want us to go to war over them too? Why, so pirates can then jump in and profit? yeah.. that will work!
If current day pirates aint up to the task of farming merchants, its not the merchants job to provide them with farms they can manage : its the job of the pirates to get better at their own job, not the merchants task to get worse at theirs.
To all the thrill seekers and bored souls, the solution is simple : fly the black flag and get out there and provide the excitement you so crave yourself. Just be careful what you wish for.. the excitement might not stop when you have satisfied you own cravings for it.

you don't want to maximize your profit while you care for your bottomline?

maybe not all merchants will care about profit. sailing their fleets between ports is exiting enough for them.
but i can see merchant guilds formed with the purpose to gain, hold and profit from specific contracts.

i doubt that pirates will profit much from this, contract supply fleets will get better defended and those fleets who opposes them stronger still. good for the capital ship league, but for the pirates not a big payday at all.

[Most Lee Harmless]

If I am extracting the maximum profit from my fleets, given the time and effort I wish to spend doing so, I am content : that player C gains .05% more per crate shipped is not a problem for me : they will probably have to spend far more time and effort doing so. An example : if I maximise all my routes every 3 days I may well earn a few more coins : but may not wish to spend the time finessing fleets and run times, losing trade during the switch over period as fleets are re-tasked and sent elsewhere, and so on : I may prefer to just leave them earning their daily coin with minimum management required. That's what I mean by merchants are not all equal : quite a few just want a decent daily income to finance other ventures, perhaps port and nation matters : trade is a tool for that, not an end in itself.

[Grimrock Litless]

Pirates don't realise how much time and effort is taken to increase the income from trade, since there is more than just make a trade routes and it is all gonna be happy happy happy, you need to look into spendings, efficiency and quite a lot more.

While, I think raiding is not as hard as they make it sound, if I have less trade, I would try being a pirate too, but people would hate me for that, so I still wouldn't.

Raiding can go one or two ways, just attacking or raiding a ship. Which is really simple most of the time, since when people raid ships I find out they target newbies more. Casting HNs and waiting at the ports, or casting FOJ before the hour, quite simple really, unless someone else is gonna tell me how it is actually less simple.

What I want to see more is, Pirates vs Pirates (PvP, cough).

[Haron]

I think this is drifting off in the wrong direction. There are plenty of "pirates vs merchants" threads. Like this one, for instance: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2582&hilit=pirates+vs+merchants

As I see it, this is simply a suggestion to give more options and action for merchants. I think the "why pirates have it so much better than merchants" or vice versa should be discuessed in those other threads.

[Maha]

If I am extracting the maximum profit from my fleets, given the time and effort I wish to spend doing so, I am content : that player C gains .05% more per crate shipped is not a problem for me : they will probably have to spend far more time and effort doing so. An example : if I maximise all my routes every 3 days I may well earn a few more coins : but may not wish to spend the time finessing fleets and run times, losing trade during the switch over period as fleets are re-tasked and sent elsewhere, and so on : I may prefer to just leave them earning their daily coin with minimum management required. That's what I mean by merchants are not all equal : quite a few just want a decent daily income to finance other ventures, perhaps port and nation matters : trade is a tool for that, not an end in itself.

i agree that not all merchants are the same or have the same interests.
Yet, each supply creates her own demand. not all merchants use indian voodoo, yet there is a market for them.
nobles who dabble in trading, or shipwrights who just stock their warehouse or the party traders will not get excited over this option. but some will.

i thought to let the port population react to the supplies, or the port profit through trade. that would get the nobles more interested. but to do so would complicate this proposal.

i opted to keep it simple; an addition to the game that does not hurt the existing game, but offers something to fight for. it's like fishing or salvaging, it has no effect on those who abstain from it but it offers opportunity for those who want to give it a go.

[Bmw]

maybe they should reduce the crates in the ports so that merchants have to fight over the resources that the port sells it would definitely make for tons of conflict in avonmora.

[Most Lee Harmless]

How about the pirates act like pirates, rather than trying to force the merchants to be pirates? If conflict is so important to you, fly the black flag, get out there and fight yourselves, instead of scheming ways to make other people fight?

I mean, I once proposed this as a joke, but maybe it should get serious consideration : soon as you log in, all your fleets get lit up! there you go, plenty of conflict there!