Territory Control

[Mugiwara]

This would change the game too much, -1.

If you have some time can you tell me which parts will change game too much maybe we can balance them?

[Maha]

At first thanks for your detailed feedbacks. I will try to give you answers about your concerns. I hope i will be clear enough.

Lets say Spain decide to seperate their ports for territories. total of 50 territories.
- They need to find 50 Noble or higher class to make a deal with them.
- IF they give all territories to nobles with an agreement of %20 lose populations will cancel the agreements. And all of the nobles ruined this job what will happen? They will lose %20 total pop in less than a month. So those 50 nobles wouldn't have a chance to get a territory again. Not only in Spain but also in other nations ports.

Bermuda USA will benefit more from this feature than Spain or Egypt.

if a nation decide? can it be undone by vote as well? or when the next nation takes control of the port? why would a nation give a income generator to outsiders? if the owners cannot profit from it due to population loss, others can either; so it is a no-brainer. who want to invest in a money losing enterprise?

Avonmora is a very capitalistic world where gc/credits rule. if you have it you can make more and if you have a lot you gain access to even more ways to make more.

the idea to share wealth will not add action.

The thing is when you own a territory and started to gain wealth. you will be able to get more golds which as you said you can rule this world. Lets say Australia took a territory from Isle of Man and controlled it really well. They gained more gold and wealth at some point they decide to have their own port's because they know how to handle with port management as a sub port controller. This idea not an lmaginary one. It can help small nations more than bigger ones.

Why would IOM allow Australia to do that???? fact is that most nations are too small and have too little nation develop minded players. this proposal does not change that. the few interested will gain more wealth, but imo those will be the more wealthy players who can outbid the wannabees. since you lose influence when you become hostile to your host, it is a disadvantage to have a territory if you want to grab a port.

the idea that all should have access to wealth generating ports is a nice thought but foreign to the avonmora world. ports are unique because there are so few of them! to increase the number of wealth generating places tenfold will reduce the scarcity and thus their reason to covet them.

Nation Diplomacy Discussion

Trade Pacts
Peace status will be required

Trade pacts will be forged between nations.
They will share the port's market bonuses in between participating nations. (ie, if there is a trade Pact between Egypt and Spain, then Spaniards will get port market bonuses on Egyptians ports and Egyptians to Spanish ports respectively).
There will be the ability to include or except ports for increased diplomatic options.
Daily fees (optional) will be available (especially handy for nations that do not control any port).

CommonWealth System Expansion

Ability to create a CommonWealth could become possible. Ruler of the Commonwealth will be a King of the participating countries. Initially the founder but there will be a periodical election system (ie, every 3 months) to declare a new Ruler.

Entering a commonwealth will have certain buffs and limitations by default. Here is a list with some that could be included:
-Peace between all nations will be obliged.
-Trade Pacts will be active by default in between every member of the CommonWealth.
-Participating nations could share their tax income based on a pact signed by each participating nation.
-Nations will not be able declare war to any nation in the same commonwealth. Either nation must leave first.
-Entering and leaving a commonwealth will be based on votings. Once entered though, you will be obliged to stay for a specified amount of time (ie, 1 month).
-Vassal Countries will not be able to join a Common Wealth other than the Commonwealth that their Overlord is participating.

Actually my suggestions not that much against the avonmora world. These are the informations Captain Jack shared with us. i already shared the full link on my first post. What is the difference ? Eventually without port owning you can get benefit from trade bonuses or such. Nation diplomacy not different than this one. you wont give your territory to your enemy. you can give them which you alread have diplomacy with them.

If im not clear let me know so i will try my best to response.

Sincerely Mugiwara...

CJ's proposal is that small nations can unite to attack a port, acting as one nation. that is very different from your proposal. wealth rules, who in his right mind will deny himself profit so that another can become a threat to him? why not share the benefits to all? now only the select few have it.
The problem is not there are not enough ports, it is that the nations are not powerful enough or lack the will to fight for those ports. a port sharing system will dampen fight over ports even more.

if the territories work, the Dukes of the portholding nations will divide them among themselves, if it won't through hostile voodoo or otherwise, the territories will be collapsed or made unobtainable/unprofitable.

[Mugiwara]

if a nation decide? can it be undone by vote as well? or when the next nation takes control of the port? why would a nation give a income generator to outsiders? if the owners cannot profit from it due to population loss, others can either; so it is a no-brainer. who want to invest in a money losing enterprise?

They cant take back territory before agreement conditions fulfilled. I they decide to give it for 1 month and lets say %10 pop lose will cancel agreement. Either 1 month need to pass or controller couldnt keep the agreement conditions safe. Taking port same as now. If you cant fulfill your duty to help port owner nation to keep port at hand than you will also lose your territory.

This system used at past. Nobles controlled the lands. As an exchange they fight near the king when they needed. When king lost they lost when king won they won.

Why would IOM allow Australia to do that???? fact is that most nations are too small and have too little nation develop minded players. this proposal does not change that. the few interested will gain more wealth, but imo those will be the more wealthy players who can outbid the wannabees. since you lose influence when you become hostile to your host, it is a disadvantage to have a territory if you want to grab a port.

They would do that if they can trust the player. guilds not designed due to nationalities. For example in my guild Lodswe King of spain he knows guild members and trust to them. And some of them asked for a territory to gain wealth and power. Why wouldnt he accept it? if he know him and trust him. After all its one more hand to carry the burden.

About influence lets say i take a territory from Tokelau and controlling it. I invest 20m influence in there which also help Tokelau to keep their port at hand thanks to our agreement my influence also count like theirs.

But at some point i decided to quit to have territory and want to take port instead. maybe i will lose some amounts of influence lets say %25 still i would have 15m. taking a port from 0 influence and 15m influence make more differences. its not disadvantage to take territory if you want to grab a port its nice way to do.

Normally would you let someone from another nation increase his/her influence in your ports? when you feel its getting riskier you will take him down. But owning territory will help you to slowly build your influence. This are all theoratically it doesnt mean every territory owner will attempt this but some of them will. So choose them wisely.

CJ's proposal is that small nations can unite to attack a port, acting as one nation. that is very different from your proposal. wealth rules, who in his right mind will deny himself profit so that another can become a threat to him? why not share the benefits to all? now only the select few have it.
The problem is not there are not enough ports, it is that the nations are not powerful enough or lack the will to fight for those ports. a port sharing system will dampen fight over ports even more.

if the territories work, the Dukes of the portholding nations will divide them among themselves, if it won't through hostile voodoo or otherwise, the territories will be collapsed or made unobtainable/unprofitable.

Pros:
- It may open new possibilities to take ports.(10 nation can make an agreement to take a port and than divide it to territories.)

How its very different than my proposal? Still i didnt get.

And about dukes will hold the territories themselves. What is the point to take it themselves? why it would be more profitable than others? They influence already counted for their ports. If you can find someone outside your nation who trustworthy that would be more profitable and helpful to keep ports. And you cant have enough Dukes to give them territory in your ports if you have lots of ports.

[Maha]

They would do that if they can trust the player. guilds not designed due to nationalities. For example in my guild Lodswe King of spain he knows guild members and trust to them. And some of them asked for a territory to gain wealth and power. Why wouldnt he accept it? if he know him and trust him. After all its one more hand to carry the burden.

OK. i get this, with this proposal a guild can own and rule a port, while still being in separate nations.
this is a way to promote guild over nation than.

[Mugiwara]

They would do that if they can trust the player. guilds not designed due to nationalities. For example in my guild Lodswe King of spain he knows guild members and trust to them. And some of them asked for a territory to gain wealth and power. Why wouldnt he accept it? if he know him and trust him. After all its one more hand to carry the burden.

OK. i get this, with this proposal a guild can own and rule a port, while still being in separate nations.
this is a way to promote guild over nation than.

All i am saying they can doable in theory. in action nations will decide that. Small nations can unity and attempt to take port and will still get fully benefit from port. with that suggestion.
And nations can give their territories to other players out of nation to get some help. As i said before this will mostly help low amount of port owners. Due to less player necessity. And for no port owner nations to get some profit and knowledge about port management. This will hopefully encouraged them for future.

[Haron]

Mugiwara, I think that "territory" idea is not thought through thoroughly.

This will make Avonmora even more peaceful and stable, as I explained earlier (PM).

Also, port takeovers will change entirely. If my nation takes control of a port, it should resume full control. And the dynamic of port battles is that the port may change hands several times in a few days.

And the influence part I did not really get. But that they have to fight with the nation in a war? What if their own nation was the only they are at war with? Also, currently wars are very "unofficial". Even if official wars are introduced, unofficial wars will happen.

And this is not the way to introduce small nations to port control. Players desiring this should first get a tremendous amount of resources. Maybe they should join a port controlling nation for some time, too.

Another thing is that you must not look on nations as teams. This is not always the case. Sometimes a nation consist of people with very different interests. And sometimes a team decides to have players in several nations, like we do.

Remember that people can change nations easily, and often do so. Most players with some experience will take less than 24H to become Marquess in a new nation.

[Mugiwara]

Peace and war will be happen based on our actions. WE choose peace or war. Our actions and choices will shape the world of avonmora.

Like you said ports can change hands several times in a few days which will effect both port owner and territory owner. It can also happen when you get ports. You dont have to take territories. it must be hard to get and keep like ports situations. and if you lose than try better on next time.

And about other idea of yours lets say spain at war with Tokelau unofficially. and as a spaniards i asked and strangely accepted to control a territory in Tokelau's port. but during that time spain attacked Tokelau with BD's and conspiracies. You will also suffer from that attacks. Because you going to pay your territories prize as a cash. and after your nations attacks if you will lose more pop than agreement conditions your agreement will cancelled.

When we get nation diplomacy there will be peace war and neutral statues as well. who would give you territory if you are unpredictable or at war with them?

And also you saying they should have tremendous amounts of resources for take ports. And im trying to help them with that way. If they can manage to control a territory they will get some gold and trade profits. which will help them to get wealth.

Im not looking a nation as a team. But you missing one of my point. If you willing to change nation dont take control of a territory. Or you will lose your territory when you lose your title. As i said at the beginning of my suggestion im also said im making this suggestion to make nobles gameplay a bit unique. And detailed. IF you dont have any interest to become noble or take control of territory to gain wealth or get some actions than you dont need to worry.

This suggestion not something like when you get influence also you will get ports. Even if you become marquess in 24 hours it doesnt mean you can automatically have a territory. still you need following materials. this is based on researchs, trust, votes and needs. If a nation dont want you as a territory owner than you cant get it.

[Getsum]

+1 I think it would be a help might spark a interest in new comers keep them involved with the game

[Sebena]

Can you explain to me why would Bermuda give out their territories to other nations?

[Mugiwara]

Wolfie you misunderstood me. There is nothing like that. i gave different nation examples on different posts If you dont like it im editing now. And no port giving on my messages.

Edited. Sorry for misunderstood.