[Implemented] New Feature: Fishing

[Captain Jack]

Psychodad, I missed your question about skirmish earlier. This is not a question on the table. Why skirmish will have any changes with fishing by the time that this is not even mentioned in my proposal? And why am I required to specifically answer to this? It's like telling someone that tomorrow, we will eat ham and eggs and then, this certain someone to ask you, will there be water? Of course there will be water.

Following your post, voodoo and pirates are a separate discussion than this one and nowhere I mentioned anything about limitations on fleet size. I specifically mentioned limitations on how many Doggers one player will be able to construct in his shipwright.

I don't get your final question on scale. There will be a single change and three new additions if all 4 steps continue as they are. This single change will be the formula change. Specifically, the change will happen first and the three additions will follow later.

To close up, and I am addressing everyone now, we are not expecting a compromise by anyone here. We are not expecting you to like or approve the change (although approval makes us feel good). This proposal can only be affected by strong arguments that involve gameplay. Arguments that involve your personal gain or objectives cannot change it. For example, it is mostly certain that if you ask 200 newcomers if they like this change, 190 will say no. Does this mean that we should not forward it? The game development is not a popularity contest. Strong gameplay arguments is the most solid element of game development.

[Psychodad]

You are not specifically required to answer anything, I am merely trying to understand what impact this change will have on the game. Not sure why we are discussing ham and eggs, will pork and poultry farming be introduced in the future perhaps? If so, will we be limited on the number of chicken coops and hog pens initially or will they be introduced as an unlimited opportunity only to be severely restricted after many players have put lots of resources into pork and poultry production? Will there be a Center for Poultry Excellence Academy and Porcine University (good ol' PU)? And the water served with the eggs and ham, which is assumed apparently, can it be made into coffee (which is a much better accompaniment for ham and eggs)? Will coffee plantations be introduced as well?

But back to fleet sizes...to be clear, in this discussion does the term "fleet" refer to groups of five ships or the entire collection of five ship groupings? (So a fleet of 10 five ship groups for a total of 50 ships? Or would that be 10 Fleets of five ships?) After the change, all ships can still fish but the formula will be as you have indicated above? A player with 100 ships can set them all to fishing but if he wishes to use the new dogger he will be limited by his academy level? Or am I to understand that the academy level will limit the total number of ships he can have fishing at any given time?

Sorry if I don't rollover and passively approve everything that is proposed here...the very term proposal in my understanding is not something written in stone rather it is a suggested change that the proposer would like to implement but is accepting input that will be considered before a popular vote is held to determine if the proposal is put in force. I understand now that the term proposal means this is what is going to happen, please voice your opinions even though they don't matter if they aren't in alignment with the developers desires. I keep making the mistake of thinking that as consumers, our desires should be taken into account. I think a better term would be "Pronouncement" or "Proclamation" is a better term as that is an announcement of what you're going to do and we can like it or s**k eggs (there are those eggs again).

Please define "newcomer". If a player doesn't care for the proposed change and argues an alternative viewpoint is it unreasonable to consider that viewpoint? If you only want sycophants, please say so and I will cease to engage in these discussions. Then this thread and those like them will be a kool aid bar for the faithful.

Please don't take my comments personally, this is business. In business one must be aware of the impact of market changes and if his interests are served, to advocate for his interests. Each member of an economy is his own best advocate.

All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing.

[Roberts]

morally corrupt

I thought you were trading these days?

[Psychodad]

hell no.

[Stan Rogers]

Hate to be the turd in the punchbowl but, the fishing could use a little closer shave to solve the imbalance situation. I thought it would take weeks to determine if it had an effect but, hmmm, seeing a big change but, IMO only,It is still more profitable to howker fish than to run lrg merchs on 1 hr routes. Of course I could just be at bad ports right now and admin has not done any changes yet.

Successful Merch fleets now need escorts making the break even point before a fleet starts earning quite a long timeline.
5 lvl 1 howkers can still earn 35k in safety.

On my ships, I'm now about 20k down from previous lvls but if totals was 5k less to about 25-30k income in 24 hrs, it would balance closer to the abilities of the more premiere merchant ships. Not to mention a fishers strength in dodging skirmishes.

Unfortunately, further steps will be necessary to correct this.

But, until then

[Stan Rogers]

Just thinking about why a howker can earn such wonderful profits and then I realized that when a howker fleet of fish sells into a port, they are guaranteed anywhere 7-11 gc profit but when they trade, that drops to 2-5 gc profit/fleet.
Call me slow !

[Mr. Rothschild]

The other benefit making these howker fishing fleets "OP", for lack of a better term, is storing food which cost nothing and using a party card for a clean 15gc profit. Won't lie I do love the profit, but to be fair it does need some balancing. A longer time to collect and fill fleets would correct this and limit their profit margin.

[Stan Rogers]

CJ proposed a number of things they could and would implement starting with a basic reduction in profits available right away and other measures to follow down the road.
If the goal is to eventually have Avonmora producing all trade goods, easy to go the other way as well. Food becomes a market commodity and it gets all very complicated in my mind.
There is no doubt maintaining the game balance will be a challenge and there are bound to be some adjustments that will have to be made. To put all of one's faith in any single method of earning gc is probably a mistake as things are going to change. Hopefully a more intricate, flexible and interesting game evolves from these changes.

[Stan Rogers]

It seems, I was premature in my assessment of the immediate reduction of fishing profits. Good hauls are still possible.

On a similar topic but something indirectly related, maybe a voodoo curse such as "Torn Nets" could be an interesting card to have but will leave any idea's to another thread if worthy enough topic.

Ok.. back to regularly scheduled programming.

[Cdv]

2)Reduce current output (formula change).
New formula could be about Crew/5 + Cargo/5 - Cannons per hour
That's about 32k clean profit a day from a 5 Trade Galleons on a simple fishing route, no voodoo, on the best buying food port.
It eliminates the cheap ships fishing vessels issue.
.....-Balances fleet worth/profit made

Sorry for the late reply. I did some calculations using the suggested formula and found that it takes 25 crew 10 hours to load a 30-cargo Cutter! That is not a problem in itself but I suggest that the new formula could be:
Production/hr= Crew/5 + Cargo/5 - Cannons/2
Looking at the figures, it solves the cheap ships fishing vessels problem; balances fleet worth with profit made; and smoothens out more the production rates across the different categories of ships, especially if you look at only trade ships.