Voodoo Update Discussion

[Captain Jack]

With the new features, a voodoo update is required. During this update, we could add around 12 cards (4 per rarity) and tweak the existing ones.

Here is a pre-list:
-Call Leviathan - Casting turns reduction from 18 to 8 turns.
-Call the Kraken - Base casting turn reduction from 8 to 3 turns.
-Generosity -> Unavailable in Presents.
-Flood -> Unavailable in boosters.
-Terrorize -> Unavailable in Boosters.
-Hired Diplomat -> Unavailble in boosters.

New:
-'The Auditors' - All your bank accounts are frozen for X hours / 5 or 8 turns / Enchantment - 24hours / Rare - Booster only


Feel free to give feedback on existing pre-list and propose your own tweaks/cards. In case of a new card, link to its topic at the Voodoo Curses suggestion forums. If none exists, create it there and then post here.

There is time till final decisions. We will implement these in April.

[Mr. Rothschild]

I think Call Leviathan should remain at 18 turns....

It is already powerfull enough. One cast can cost the target 3 million if cast of a SotL or the full 17mill (approx) if 10 are cast. Being able to sling 10 Leviathans at the cost of 80 turns means if i wanted to i could level 8 Ships of the Line from a player in one days work. Highly over powered.

[Shaydo]

Call Leviathan should come back down in turn cost and 8 seems reasonable, it is supposed to be the single most feared card in the game able to cause massive damage. Back when it was, 3 turns if i remember right, the card was used to devastating effect, the thought that they maybe the target could dissuade people from attacking, i remember whole fleets of 60 stat SoLs going in the blink of an eye although this wasn't often, course i think the war after was fun.

Since the turn cost was increased to 18 i know of very few being used and rarely to destroy an entire ship, let alone a whole fleet.

Being able to sling 10 Leviathans at the cost of 80 turns means if i wanted to i could level 8 Ships of the Line from a player in one days work. Highly over powered.

Of course to do that you would also need 80 Call Leviathans, double turns, increase storage and purchase of 400 turns? And if your going to that extent what's a couple more days preparing to get a few more turns to do the same thing anyway, after all how many people have 80 Call Leviathans?

More realistically they are used to soften a battle fleet before a major conflict, and have only been used sparingly to my knowledge to eradicate entire fleets at anchor.

Also,
+1 the the Auditors, the card could make the difference between capturing ships or not capturing ships, i like the idea of being able to stop someone accessing there fortune.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Call Leviathan is an awesomely powerful card. It should remain expensive to use, in my view : I agree, few use it to nuke entire fleets : but for stripping tails to expose high value ships to plundering, it can be combined with Bootymaster and ambush to rapidly zero a purse which opens all the targets fleets to capture. In that, an attacker can justify the current high cost if the prize is worthwhile : This was a lesson hard learnt at the hands of Mr Boot. This aspect alone makes it a card that should not be thrown lightly or cheaply. Currently, a cast of 10 to strip a low value tail is not out of the reach of most players, but not easily achieved either, it does require some pre-planning, which is right and proper. A cast of 20 to remove 2 low value tails is rare and takes greater effort and pre-planning and, usually, combining with another player in a joint attack. Its also rarely worth it, unless the prize is spectacularily profitable : which is also right and proper, in my view.

Add in its 'punitive' use, for stripping top levels off high value ships as punishment, rather than for gain : and it again justifies its high use cost. Repairing the top level off a SotL or MoW is no cheap deal : that it weakens a fleet for plunder as well is a bonus too. Make the card too cheap to use and rather than more use in toe-to-toe scraps for fleet captures (which would be nice and of value to the game), it will likely become a tool for mischief alone, used chiefly to 'bankrupt' owners of high value ships with continual repair costs of replacing those lost levels : if used by an opponent with little to hit back against, even the strongest player would be rendered impotent in no time, and whilst I can think of a few players whom few would shed tears over if that happened (myself included for some), capital ships would soon lose any value in the game and I do not see that as a positive. Already there is a mood that MoW's, for example, are not worth the hassle of ownership : cheap levi's used as punishment tools will add high attribute SotL's to that list, in my view, as not worth owning.

[Mr. Rothschild]

Well said Danik, thank you.

I for one wold never own another high value ship. There would be no point in owning them due to the cost to repair or the risk in losing them all together. Why keep a high value ship at all if you could easily do the same damage with a much cheaper and weaker ship and a few easy voodoo casts?? Call levi's have their place, but opening them up to be abused is a bad idea.

[Shaydo]

I would like all who are opposed to the idea to think back to when it was a mere 3 turns to cast.

The situations your speaking of did not happen then so i have no reason to think they would now, sure it was fired around more, but that is the only real difference. If someone wanted to use it to sink the kicker ship of a fleet and expose it then i think the turn cost wound be rendered a mute point as if you are thinking of that idea then you have already begun planning what assets you will require to meet such an end? and an extra 100 turns is barely anything.

Part of the problem is because of the high turn cost few have used them so they have built up, if the turn cost was reduced then they would be used more frequently yes, but that would also mean there were far less in the waters to be used, so the situation of 10 being used to destroy a kicker would soon take more than 1 person to achieve unless they were very patient.

I will also remind you that Expedition Journey can negate the damage done by a Call Leviathan if it is used to just strip off 1-2 levels from a ship.

[Most Lee Harmless]

yes, EJ's can be used to repair levels : but they are not that common and have other demands on their use : right now, in the market, a levi is half the price of an EJ : I'd judge that most folk have more Levi's than EJ's in their chests and as long as EJ's are in greater demand for topping off new SotL and MoW builds, that's unlikely to change.

The limiter on using Levi to clean a tail is that you still need to be able to defeat the ships behind that tail : you still need to cast other voodoo, like fire-ships or krackens, to weaken high-end ships and then ambushes/booty-masters to burn the purse : so, in that, a cheaper use levi may not make a great deal of difference, maybe. And after all that, a guild-mate tosses a genny and you are boogered and all the effort, card and turns have been largely wasted. Meh, that's the risk and that's fine by me.

But make it so that it costs 8 turns to cause millions in permanent damage to top-end ships ; well, who needs to actually fight to ruin an enemy? EJ's can repair, but they dont always replace all of the lost attributes, unless you very lucky : so, add an MC (or two at worst) into the repair bill as well (currently 3 times the cost of a levi in market) : with those kinds of costs attached, the argument should maybe be that levis should cost more to use, not less.

[Stan Rogers]

The current price of Levi's do encourage group participation and that is not a bad thing. Yes, a single player can cause a lot of damage currently but the turn cost make any caster look twice before throwing a few out.

[Mr. Rothschild]

The current price of Levi's do encourage group participation and that is not a bad thing. Yes, a single player can cause a lot of damage currently but the turn cost make any caster look twice before throwing a few out.

Which in my mind is a good system. To change it would be a mistake.

[Sir Colchian Niveus]

-1 Levi's are ok as they are.. it's already hard enough for new players to reach voodoo banks of the old ones.. let's not give more power to voodoo banks..