same old stan

[Stan Rogers]

Yea...frick'in plants make it hard to keep my purse below 5 mil. Oh, the pain of it all.

[Dmanwuzhere]

poor ez down to 3 mbs

[Lachlan]

Leo, moderates are the ones with sense. Moderation is in my opinion, key to just about everything. You can't have a society with no rules or laws, as that's anarchy, and is bad for quite a few reasons. Too many rules and laws, you have a authoritarian/fascist where you only can do what your government says, nothing more, nothing less or be punished.

I am of the opinion, that everything is bad when taken to extremes, and you need to have moderation to make things good. Too much freedom means you're free to murder or force yourself onto your neighbor, too little freedom you're a prisoner. Too much focus spent on helping others, you leave yourself in a bad state. Too much food, you get fat, too little, you starve. Too much water your drown or die, too little you die. Too nice? People take advantage of you. Too mean, people hate you and try to get rid of you.

As to you lachlan, I won't deny that both sides have done things that are bad in the israel Palestine conflicts. That's war though. Bad things happen. The palestinians took hostages, and hide behind civilians. They seek to wipe Israel off the map. Israel may do bad things, but it's for self preservation. hamas does it simply to wipe out people they hate. One is far worse then the other.

Think of it like this. Imagine you're walking with your family one day, and some lunatic starts rushing at you from down the street with a knife, and has taped babies all over himself. He yells he's gonna gut you, and your whole family then the rest of the neighborhood, thankfully you have a gun. Tell me, would you shoot him, knowing that you'll very likely kill a baby or two in the process, or let him commit a massacre. It's a horrid situation, but many cowardly people will hide behind innocents while they do evil things. because evil people know good people will hesitate, and try to avoid hitting them full force if they use a innocent as a shield.

Israel and Palestinians I think mutually want to wipe each other out to be honest.

[Lachlan]

I don't really think DOGE is beneficial for the government. Yes they are cutting staff and costs but I don't think many of them know what they are doing and they are firing too many people too fast. I don't think outsiders like DOGE really know or understand how many people are essential in government departments vs who should be fired and are making rushed decisions that in some cases are not well informed.

As for Israelis' and Palestinians I think both sides are wrong. On the one hand you have HAMAS which act like terrorists, took hostages and slaughtered civilian Israelis and foreigners indiscriminately. On the other hand you have Isreal who for years blockaded Gaza from essentials like food, water and medical aid as well as desecrated mosques. There is no right side in a war like that. Historically most of the previous wars between Isreal and Palestinians have been the Palestinians fault as the Israeli's tried to make peace with them several times. This latest war however is mostly Israel's fault. Keeping a population starving and thirsty usually does not make people feel very charitable towards you. Because of this and historical grievances on both sides this is why some Palestinians still support Hamas and why Israel at times has been somewhat genocidal.

Unlike with Ukraine and Russia there is not a better or morally good side.

lol doge isn't firing anyone they report to the president all resulting actions are from the president and his staff. the firings come from the respective agencies' heads

yall seriously crack me up with yalls talking points

Not initially. At the start people were being fired and then people were getting confused because DOGE technically does not have the power as you say to fire them. My initial point stands either way. Musk and Trump seem to be feverishly rushing around and firing anyone without taking some time to double check if they are essential or not because DOGE employees are outsiders to those departments as I said, they do not really know or understand who is essential or not and then are in some cases having to rehire those people again.

[Meliva]

Israel and Palestinians I think mutually want to wipe each other out to be honest.

Israel has been around for 75 years roughly. During that time, every war they have been in, they were attacked first, aside from the 6 day war I believe. Which, in their defense, they started because they claim they noticed their neighbors gathering forces near their border, and rather then wait for them to hit first again, like they always do, they struck first that time.

Do you really believe that a country that has almost never started any of their wars with their neighbors, and has routinely given back land they won in said wars to their neighbors, wants to wipe them out? Or that if Israel wanted to wipe out the people in the Gaza strip, they wouldn't be doing so much more effectively? Hell, the civilian death count for that war is actually incredibly low given this is urban warfare.

Or that Israel, if they wanted to wipe them out, would give them the gaza strip in the first place, and then leave them alone with no attacks until they hit first? Tell me, what the hell of any of that, makes you think they want to wipe them out? They want them to leave them the hell alone, but they keep trying to kill them all, and Israel has to beat them back.

Also, notice you didn't answer my question. So I'll ask again. If you had a gun, and a crazy man with babies strapped to himself wielding a knife charged at you claiming he was gonna gut you, then your family, then the rest of the neighborhood, would you shoot him knowing you may very likely kill a baby doing so, or just let him commit his massacre? This is important, because Hamas does things like this, they hide behind civilians while launching attacks. Should Israel not hit back, because civilians die, and let them attack them freely? Even if it would result in their deaths? What would you do? Me personally, I'd shoot. I wouldn't like doing it, and I'd feel bad for the babies, but I ain't gonna let someone gut me or my family if I can stop it. What about you?

[Leo]

Israel and Palestinians I think mutually want to wipe each other out to be honest.

Israel has been around for 75 years roughly. During that time, every war they have been in, they were attacked first, aside from the 6 day war I believe. Which, in their defense, they started because they claim they noticed their neighbors gathering forces near their border, and rather then wait for them to hit first again, like they always do, they struck first that time.

It's a complicated issue for sure, but I'm gonna go ahead and throw in some context. Israel was PLACED into the Middle East by the League of Nations, specifically England. This happened after the Holocaust and Jews were looking for a homeland where they could be safe. A completely understandable thing. But Palestine, Syria and Lebanon and Jordan were already occupying the land. They had no say in this, it was just another instance of European countries disregarding the people living in an area and colonizing it. So settlements went up and Israel expanded. And they expanded into Palestinian land. Naturally, Palestinians were very angry that their land was being absorbed into colonies and that they had no say in it, so that is when they attacked. I believe Syria also helped to try to squeeze Israel out. So in a way it kinda is like what happened with European settlers and native Americans, although my understanding is that Native Americans tried to make peace several times and were tricked instead whereas Palestinians struck back as soon as their land became occupied.

It gets more complicated though, because Israel is a Jewish state and Palestine is an Islamic state. The two religions already have a history of conflict and war. But both also claim to have ancestral ties to the land that Israel/Palestine occupy. So on one hand, Jews wanted a homeland to feel safe, which is understandable, and so they began occupying the land that was "promised" to them in the Torah. But Palestinians were already there, and the League of Nations failed to negotiate anything with them, make them any offers or trades for the land, or facilitate a peaceful occupation. I believe a two state solution would've worked if this crucial step had been taken in the beginning. But now the two are so hostile to each other that it is hard to see a future where they can live in peace. It is a pretty sad issue because there's not much we can do about it and people continue to die as a result of the never ending war.

[Leo]

Also I will add that the IDF has been known to go far and beyond killing civilians who Hamas has hidden from. They've been killing journalists and toddlers. When journalism does make it out it shows pictures and videos of children who leave their house to search for help and who are shot. It's not just about self defense anymore. Israel is overstepping their duties and knocking off journalists who try to report on it

[Dmanwuzhere]

I don't really think DOGE is beneficial for the government. Yes they are cutting staff and costs but I don't think many of them know what they are doing and they are firing too many people too fast. I don't think outsiders like DOGE really know or understand how many people are essential in government departments vs who should be fired and are making rushed decisions that in some cases are not well informed.

As for Israelis' and Palestinians I think both sides are wrong. On the one hand you have HAMAS which act like terrorists, took hostages and slaughtered civilian Israelis and foreigners indiscriminately. On the other hand you have Isreal who for years blockaded Gaza from essentials like food, water and medical aid as well as desecrated mosques. There is no right side in a war like that. Historically most of the previous wars between Isreal and Palestinians have been the Palestinians fault as the Israeli's tried to make peace with them several times. This latest war however is mostly Israel's fault. Keeping a population starving and thirsty usually does not make people feel very charitable towards you. Because of this and historical grievances on both sides this is why some Palestinians still support Hamas and why Israel at times has been somewhat genocidal.

Unlike with Ukraine and Russia there is not a better or morally good side.

lol doge isn't firing anyone they report to the president all resulting actions are from the president and his staff. the firings come from the respective agencies' heads

yall seriously crack me up with yalls talking points

Not initially. At the start people were being fired and then people were getting confused because DOGE technically does not have the power as you say to fire them. My initial point stands either way. Musk and Trump seem to be feverishly rushing around and firing anyone without taking some time to double check if they are essential or not because DOGE employees are outsiders to those departments as I said, they do not really know or understand who is essential or not and then are in some cases having to rehire those people again.

Lol, great narrative, they were not essential ... none of them. They wanted them back just because of the headlines.
Unless you believe in the group of probationary workers, which they all were, were the only people tasked with these important jobs.
That would mean for 3 plus years Biden had no one filling these key roles.
Trump did not want the headlines that mindless sheep repeat with no critical thinking, investigatory skill, or common sense.

I had to go research for myself because it was mentioned that if you don't answer a certain E-mail within a set time it would be assumed you were not doing your job and you would at worst be fired at best discuss why you weren't doing your job.
I thought maybe that could be how these "Key Essential Workers" were fired.

But no, they were all probationary workers employed less than a year who had job titles that presented bad optics in the press.
While Trump's vanity saved their jobs by recalling them they were not essential.

[Leo]

But no, they were all probationary workers employed less than a year who had job titles that presented bad optics in the press.
While Trump's vanity saved their jobs by recalling them they were not essential.

This is not true. I know multiple people that had been working for many years and were fired because of DOGE. What defines essential? Why do a few billionaires get to decide who we need and who we don't? Tesla paid $0 in taxes this year. The amount they should've paid would've more than covered the amount "saved" by firing these workers. Now imagine if every billionaire paid the amount they were supposed to instead of weasling their way out through loopholes. But no, instead they're cutting our Medicare and firing park rangers and cutting veterans disability.

[Dmanwuzhere]

Israel has been around for 75 years roughly. During that time, every war they have been in, they were attacked first, aside from the 6 day war I believe. Which, in their defense, they started because they claim they noticed their neighbors gathering forces near their border, and rather then wait for them to hit first again, like they always do, they struck first that time.

It's a complicated issue for sure, but I'm gonna go ahead and throw in some context. Israel was PLACED into the Middle East by the League of Nations, specifically England. This happened after the Holocaust and Jews were looking for a homeland where they could be safe. A completely understandable thing. But Palestine, Syria and Lebanon and Jordan were already occupying the land. They had no say in this, it was just another instance of European countries disregarding the people living in an area and colonizing it. So settlements went up and Israel expanded. And they expanded into Palestinian land. Naturally, Palestinians were very angry that their land was being absorbed into colonies and that they had no say in it, so that is when they attacked. I believe Syria also helped to try to squeeze Israel out. So in a way it kinda is like what happened with European settlers and native Americans, although my understanding is that Native Americans tried to make peace several times and were tricked instead whereas Palestinians struck back as soon as their land became occupied.

It gets more complicated though, because Israel is a Jewish state and Palestine is an Islamic state. The two religions already have a history of conflict and war. But both also claim to have ancestral ties to the land that Israel/Palestine occupy. So on one hand, Jews wanted a homeland to feel safe, which is understandable, and so they began occupying the land that was "promised" to them in the Torah. But Palestinians were already there, and the League of Nations failed to negotiate anything with them, make them any offers or trades for the land, or facilitate a peaceful occupation. I believe a two state solution would've worked if this crucial step had been taken in the beginning. But now the two are so hostile to each other that it is hard to see a future where they can live in peace. It is a pretty sad issue because there's not much we can do about it and people continue to die as a result of the never ending war.

What hogwash. The middle east as you see it today is a result of a whole host of treaties that came from the fall of the Ottoman Empire, who actually through force owned the land you are creating a fairy tale about.
The State of Palestine as a title did not exist until 2013.
It's funny how a nation adopted a Greek name, it's a fun read and starts all the way back with the 20th dynasty of Egypt in 1150 BCE and goes to present.
But unlike the Israelites, there is uncertainty throughout time as to who is occupying the land as they were not important enough to name lol.
There is a ton of uncertainty as to who the Palestinians truly are as through most of that history things are recorded by area and not
by a people known as Palestinians. In fact most of the people in the area were not named even the Torah disagrees with you.

Please post the Torahs promise to the Palestinians as a lot of people must have missed it.

The 10 uses in the Torah have undefined boundaries and no meaningful description, and the usage in two later books describing coastal cities in conflict with the Israelites – where the Septuagint instead uses the term allophuloi (Αλλόφυλοι, 'other nations') – has been interpreted to mean "non-Israelites of the Promised Land".

While I did a very brief tour of the history, the following is true, the middle east, as we know it. was and is under treaties that give Israel the right to be where they are and has been attacked repeatedly. Due in part to their ingenuity in taking land they were pushed to during treaty negotiations (that was the least wanted land) and turning it into land everyone now wants. And also due to historical feuds.

If you studied the history instead of the talking points you would find it takes longer to speak but you will not constantly be proven wrong.
I will not revisit this topic.
The amount of reading to make a couple of paragraphs was ungodly and brutal as it was not formatted in the way we in the West tend to read so it was uncomfortable and time-consuming with lots of jumps.
My hats off to any scholars of Middle Eastern history, if you have a degree you more than earned it.