Rules are only rules if they are enforced..... so I am suggesting a few changes to game rules....

https://www.piratesglory.com/rules.php

9. Rules not mentioned here
* The rules mentioned here are based on popular violation issues. Ocassionally, issues that are not described here may arise. The game administrators are obliged to ensure fair play at all cases and we will be doing so at all cases, regardless if it is mentioned here or not. Cheating, abuse and unfair treatment of other players has no place in Pirates Glory.



The line highlighted in red should be removed from official game rules.

Because there was prize money involved, this was a direct violation of milking/pushing.

https://www.piratesglory.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=515

Examples:
-If you helped your friend lose 40 danger, then he will get it double back and you will get the same as well.
-If you gained 5millions from the total case,you will have 10 millions removed.
-If you gained a few credits or cards through an inside deal, since we do not give credit penalties, we will count it as a double offense as shown below.

Again, portion in red needs to be removed because it is not enforced.

I have heard comments that like, we will ban bribes and payment for votes in the next draft because it isn't against the rules", and "after all its as pirate game".......

Well it is clearly layed out in game rules in two different sections. It doesn't need to be added, it needs to be removed because it is not enforced. Rules with no consequences are not rules at all.

I am asking for comment and suggestions on these and other rules and possible ruile changes.

Lets make the rules fit the game we currently have insteadof having rules that do not mean anything.

Now since the milking/pushing rules are not enforced, then by all reasonable accounts, you should be allowed to have multiple accounts without consequences.

I agree with your point, the actions are either legit, or the infractions are enforced.
The latter would be my preference

You are conflating actions in-game with actions outside the game : that is in the forums.

If you want to enforce the logic that gaining prizes in community run events outside the game itself but which prizes can be used in-game are subject to in-game rules on milking/pushing : then the donating of those prizes also breaches those self-same rules.

So, then your argument is a slightly different thing : not about the morality of gaining prizes by underhand means but about the legality (within game rules) of the prizes themselves.

Pitch your rule change correctly : it is about banning the giving or receiving of prizes in forum events. All forum events offering prizes, for all fall under your given definition of milking/pushing/cheating.

... wrote:You are conflating actions in-game with actions outside the game : that is in the forums.

If you want to enforce the logic that gaining prizes in community run events outside the game itself but which prizes can be used in-game are subject to in-game rules on milking/pushing : then the donating of those prizes also breaches those self-same rules.

So, then your argument is a slightly different thing : not about the morality of gaining prizes by underhand means but about the legality (within game rules) of the prizes themselves.

Pitch your rule change correctly : it is about banning the giving or receiving of prizes in forum events. All forum events offering prizes, for all fall under your given definition of milking/pushing/cheating.

I was trying to stay out of posting on this, but actions in the forums are not entirely removed from the game rules. Activities that involve in-game actions such as forum games with prizes must adhere to in-game rules. The draft is a Game Administration approved and to some extent sponsored (game achievements would be the primary indicator, key word being GAME) activity. The draft includes means to prevent milking/pushing via multiple teams, a community prize pot, and then a vote. Trying to manipulate or exploit the forum activity could technically brings forth game rule violations.

Additional examples outside of the draft where forum activities tie into game rules. Any forum game that has a "prize" must adhere to game rules. You can't create a forum game to give away all your earnings, but you can create a game that gives away nominal prize, as long as the game isn't rigged to give to someone particular.

Please do not take this as being for or against the OPs topic or suggestion. I'm simply responding to the statement of Game Rules not applying to Forum Activities. My current position to the OP's topic is no comment.

... wrote:You are conflating actions in-game with actions outside the game : that is in the forums.

If you want to enforce the logic that gaining prizes in community run events outside the game itself but which prizes can be used in-game are subject to in-game rules on milking/pushing : then the donating of those prizes also breaches those self-same rules.

So, then your argument is a slightly different thing : not about the morality of gaining prizes by underhand means but about the legality (within game rules) of the prizes themselves.

Pitch your rule change correctly : it is about banning the giving or receiving of prizes in forum events. All forum events offering prizes, for all fall under your given definition of milking/pushing/cheating.

The Prizes associated are IN GAME in the form of credits, gold coin, and Game achievements. Therefore by definition, the milking/pushing rules should apply or be removed.

I see these arguments heading down a rabbit hole of legalese - we will soon need legal representation to arbitrate between game/forum rules.

For instance, prize donation in the draft - no donations. Captains can decide who they want on their team based on who they want to get swag rather than merit.

(That is not a suggestion, but a for instance.)

With that in mind, it would become a huge mess of rules concerning donations.

Even Meliva's sunken ship hunt could technically be abused, etc.

What it comes down to is how strict you desire game rules to govern the forum events? The way I see it (and this is just my opinion) the tighter the marriage, the fewer events due to the hassle and contention. An event would require a complete set of event rules that satisfy in game and forum rules.

Sir Henry Morgan wrote:I see these arguments heading down a rabbit hole of legalese - we will soon need legal representation to arbitrate between game/forum rules.

For instance, prize donation in the draft - no donations. Captains can decide who they want on their team based on who they want to get swag rather than merit.

(That is not a suggestion, but a for instance.)

With that in mind, it would become a huge mess of rules concerning donations.

Even Meliva's sunken ship hunt could technically be abused, etc.

What it comes down to is how strict you desire game rules to govern the forum events? The way I see it (and this is just my opinion) the tighter the marriage, the fewer events due to the hassle and contention. An event would require a complete set of event rules that satisfy in game and forum rules.

I understand your point but we have recent history of action taken in the draft for abuse. A few drafts ago, a player got his friends to create accounts in game simply to vote for his team in draft. One was foolish enough to have an Game tag of "Here for the Draft". That account was immediately removed along with others by admin under the very same milking/pushing rules. (Using anothers account for the benefit of your own).

So there is a history of rules enforcement around the draft. You can't take action under the milking/pushing rule in one draft and not another.

Either the rule exists or it doesn't.

I see your point -

A question: if it is decided to eliminate the rule, it starts today and moves on.

If it is decided that, no you cannot milk/push on forum events, should it be started now, and moved forward, or do we go back and correct these situations?

If we go back, we need to be fair and just, thus we need to address every case we know and can validate.

Wouldn't that affect ever captain and donor of every draft to date?

Sir Henry Morgan wrote:I see your point -

A question: if it is decided to eliminate the rule, it starts today and moves on.

If it is decided that, no you cannot milk/push on forum events, should it be started now, and moved forward, or do we go back and correct these situations?

If we go back, we need to be fair and just, thus we need to address every case we know and can validate.

Wouldn't that affect ever captain and donor of every draft to date?

I have stated my opinion on this before. In this scenario, prize money has been paid out and I would not want to have to navigate the logistics of changing that,

The only thing that has not been awarded is game achievements. There should be no winning team or winning captain achievement only team Captain and draftee achievements.

Players involved in this should be sanctioned in some way determined by admin.

This would be fair to all that were chosen by captains.

To be honest, I do not want the rule removed.... just enforced. There is no need to change any rules for future drafts. The rules are already in place as long as they are enforced.