The Flying Gang [BLACK]

[DezNutz]

Deznutz. You are too smart for me. You see so many levels to this.

To me, it is black and white. There have been coordinated attacks against me by the same group of pirates over and over again. The one time I decide to hit back, they send mass messages threatening everyone they will "sweep through guilds one by one causing damage and mayhem". Very plain English to me what they intend to do to every guild if they don't find out who.

to any and all we do not trust or know. To someone who has been attacked over and over, why should I care they trust me? Whether they meant to or not, they were asking Avonmora to bend the knee. Anyone who doesn't is an excuse for them to hit.

I guess because I already said bend the knee, I feel the best way to end this would be to analyze your words for a change in this light... I think you are one of these two:
1. You should change your name from DezNutz to Jon Snow Or
2. You are very smart... as smart as Lord Baelish and are using this opportunity to bend the knee more so as not to get attacked for a longer while by these cry babies who mass message threats the moment some small player didn't care how small he was and decides to hit back.

Your problem is you think the message was the result of your hit back, it wasn't. A couple of weeks or so back, a good chunk of the ports were hit by Conspiracy and Black Death, causing extensive losses to ports to include the UKs. Vane made a request for information on the players who did this or he would find out by making Avonmora Burn. Between then and now, the UK was apparently hit additionally. Since no information was provided on who the culprits were, he made his threat official with the message.

[Most Lee Harmless]

While undercover ability exists, then knowing who cast what, where and when will remain a mystery. Nobody can know save the caster. thats a plain fact. Argue about keeping undercover ability, yes : if its so objectionable, dont use it yourself : work to have it removed, or adjusted, modifed, nerfed, whatever. But setting yourself up as some superior power who can demand that information at pain of inflicting damage and harm on nations, guilds and individuals unless they are told the identity of the caster is pure nonsense. Who is Vane to seek to justify this form of collective punishment if he doesnt get his own way? Did you elect him King?

Yes, we can all be hit at any time, by anyone for any reason : thats a bit different in scope to some-one telling you they will act to destroy you, your guild and your nation if you dont bow to their demands. Nothing to fear? Bollox. Why should I have to assure him I have no part in any of this? Or risk his wrath if he doesnt believe me or trust me? Or accede to his demand to inform on who I might think is responsible, or risk his wrath again? He is just another player, not my god, not my king, not my leader.

Undercover attacks on ports are a pain, along with other matters which make port ownership a constant struggle and expense. But they are same struggles and expenses for all port nations. Mexico saw its port populations decimated by undercover casts and attacks : sure, we would love to have known who was responsible ; we had a good idea : but we never KNEW and if you, or any other, had told us, we still wouldnt have known, for how would you have known? Maybe your informant is stirring the pot too, for their own agenda.
So, what to do? Crying wont fix it : stamping your feet and wagging your flag wont fix it : spending more coin and cards will : that's what port control is: its a gold-sinker, designed to sweep coin and assets out of the game.

If you cant handle undercover casts, stay out of port matters : dont play the influence game : if you must, then you have to accept it for what it is : a total and very expensive pain in the arse.

But, back to current events : I dont take kindly to being bullied or folk thinking they can demand I bend the knee to them : that's the abiding central feature of my time here. And if thats too much for some, well, tough, thats the way I play and if they can play by their rules, so can I.

[DezNutz]

I agree with you on almost everything you said.

Yes, you will never know for sure who did the actual castings, unless you see their voodoo log. However, in this case, this wasn't the act of a single person and the more people involved, the more likely that someone who didn't cast knows someone who did.

I'm not advocating for undercover to change. I understand that ports and influence are expensive and a gold sinker. I understand that certain voodoo casts will occur against ports and the nation just moves on. However, when multiple nations notice a massive influx of castings on their ports, tolerance only goes far. Should we tolerate the hits until our populations and influence are wiped out. You can't expect a nation to sit idle by and just keep dumping in gold coin.

As for bullying I agree, I don't like bullies. However, I see those that did the castings that resulted in extensive losses for multiple nations as bullies as well. They sit in the darkness, knowing that port ownership is difficult and they aren't likely to be caught, and cast in such magnitude in the hope that players "bend their knees" and move on and give up on port ownership.

[Ddp]

In this threat to ALL guilds, I don't think anyone can afford to sit on the fence on this one. I don't remember you ever repeatedly plundering me in a coordinated fashion. So I wish fair winds keep your sails always full enough to outrun the dark clouds rolling into Avonmora.

PIRAT will sweep through guilds one by one causing damage and mayhem to any and all we do not trust or know.

I disagree. I think those that have done nothing and did not participate in this have nothing to worry about. All one had to do is talk to Vane if they had nothing to do with it. All he wanted was information. If you did nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, all you needed to do was talk to him. So a player that did nothing should have nothing to worry about.

I emphasized the one part, as there are quite a few players and a couple of guilds that are highly reputable and do not make foolish actions. They paid no mind to this. I consider myself one that paid no mind for several reasons. I only showed interest because I suspect that those that hit the UK, also hit the USA and the other port holding nations in Avonmora and wanted those responsible to pay.

So what were you worried about. A player being treated unfairly. For someone who has played as long as you have, I would expect them to know by this point that a veteran player such as Vane knows how far to take things. He like the other veteran players aren't here to make players leave. A growing player base is important to the games success.

Additionally, if a newer player(s) did do something without understanding the consequences, I don't expect the more experience players in the guild or the guild as a whole make an effort to cover up their actions. Something of this nature could have been discussed and worked out. Even if the player(s) were going to be hit, it would be a good learning point on a variety of things. Hiding or taking the fall for another player(s) only in the end hurts the other player(s). They learn nothing other than that someone will cover for their poor decisions.

So, if I am innocent, I should have nothing to worry about, eh? I called Vane and UK out on this @&%#! and got HAMMERED overnight. I haven't cast a thing, I have nothing to do with anything, yet because I had the cajones to speak up I got ravaged. I could declare my innocence over and over and it wouldn't matter, because I am presumed to be hiding something. Go to hell, the lot of you.

[PFH]

Who are you? What is your ID?

[DezNutz]

So, if I am innocent, I should have nothing to worry about, eh? I called Vane and UK out on this @&%#! and got HAMMERED overnight. I haven't cast a thing, I have nothing to do with anything, yet because I had the cajones to speak up I got ravaged. I could declare my innocence over and over and it wouldn't matter, because I am presumed to be hiding so mething. Go to hell, the lot of you.

Hmm, I wonder if it had anything to do with how you responded. As Vane stated previously (paraphrasing), his message generated a lot of responses and numerous players have received "immunity" (my word not his) from action.

Who are you? What is your ID?

Ddp stands for Diamond Dallas Page, someone likes wrestling. The player's in game name is Diamond Dallas (#66885).

[Most Lee Harmless]

Indeed, and as such, everyone has cast undercover and will continue to do it because they can. I'd lay odds of 1000-1 that many of those up in arms about these attacks have also cast conspiracies and Black Deaths in their time and didnt think to send a mail owning up to it.

I'd lay the same odds that a large number of folk here have thrown those same casts in two directions, in the hope it will kick off a dispute between two nations from which they might benefit or sometimes just for the fun of it. Thats part of port control battles : getting others to do the work for you : heck, you can even employ folk to do it for you.

But lets not get into the exceptionalism trap here : Is it 'clever' when one player does it to advance their nations cause but 'mean and nasty' when another does likewise? Thats what drives a lot of these complaints : Do what we say, not what we do. It's ironic that this episode is allegedly in defence of a nation which ended up with two ports after, guess what... the previous owners got propped, connie-ed and BD-ed into oblivion by the same player and crew who now demand special status and protection for themselves.

Life is so funny at times.

[Charles Vane]

Rules rules, do this you can't do that your not God your not king blah blah..

All I hear is whining from you Danik, despite accusations of other being the babies.

This is a game, a pirate game I might add. It's an open world where one is only hindered by mechanics and a basic list of rules that would otherwise break game play. As for the play itself, that be up to the players. They do as they wish, if one has the notion to demand something and is capable of enforcing it then so be it. Most guilds demand no one attacks them, if some one does they act to the best of their ability to see their own rule stands.

The rules around avonmora are simple, there are none! (again bar CJ's game rules). If a player can think it up, carry it out, and enforce it then becomes a rule until someone else prevents him/her from doing it.

Asking me to bend a knee for my public threat is the same thing your saying I did, get off your high horse.

[God of hate]

Rules rules, do this you can't do that your not God your not king blah blah..

All I hear is whining from you Danik, despite accusations of other being the babies.

This is a game, a pirate game I might add. It's an open world where one is only hindered by mechanics and a basic list of rules that would otherwise break game play. As for the play itself, that be up to the players. They do as they wish, if one has the notion to demand something and is capable of enforcing it then so be it. Most guilds demand no one attacks them, if some one does they act to the best of their ability to see their own rule stands.

The rules around avonmora are simple, there are none! (again bar CJ's game rules). If a player can think it up, carry it out, and enforce it then becomes a rule until someone else prevents him/her from doing it.

Asking me to bend a knee for my public threat is the same thing your saying I did, get off your high horse.

I am not asking your group to bend the knee. I am just emphasizing that your group likes to hit other players. But cry like it is the end of the world when they get hit back. You asked for information. I gave you information. It is me. You now have one target for the "losses" your group is whining about. Me. I'm saying I'm gonna keep hitting everyone in the UK forever. Now what?!!!

[Charles Vane]

Now nothing , you just get hit more frequently than others.

As I said before, our basic raids are light and allow a protection period for the merchant to rebuild and earn so they never lose more than they make. You outright and publicly made yourself an enemy to us so you'll just get hit anytime we feel like it. As for you being the primary culprit.. your not.