same old stan

[Lachlan]

So since Canada has had tariffs on us for years we shouldn't trust them?

I'm not sure what tariffs Canada may have on the United States or if they have a trade deficit with you. Either way however I don't mean tariffs which have been there for years. Small increases in tariffs over an extended period of time (I'm thinking years or decades) is different compared to slapping everyone with large increases in tariffs over a very short period of time which is what Trump has done. That is what I mean as an erosion of trust. I'm sure Trump could have negotiated better trade deals with everyone instead of arbitrarily slapping economic punishments on everyone including America's allies.

How is it any different? We got fed up with unfair trade now we're making it fair. How is that wrong? Please explain

I'm not sure why you do not understand. Placing tariffs with little warning on everyone is seen as aggressive so then other countries retaliate. I suggested renegotiating trade deals that many be unequal so it is better for all sides, is not seen as aggressive and you are working with other countries instead of against them. This would make both sides happy.

For example, Australia has a trade deficit with the United States. This means we import more of your stuff than we export to you.This mean trade between our two countries is in your favour. Then tariffs are raised on Australian steel and Aluminum raising it even more in your favour. We have not done anything wrong to offend you and yet we are arbitrarily lumped into the same category as countries who have a trade deficit not in America's favour. So now trade between our two countries is even more unfair.

[Dmanwuzhere]

Canada put tariffs on us and while they have a ton of 2-3 percent tariffs (which is a steady drain of our cash)
they have quite a few that are over 130 percent, dairy over x amount is 200 percent.

so lets take the dairy ... it doesn't promote distrust it merely keeps Canadians dairy the most bought in Canada

in the same way that putting 25-50 percent keeps American steel aluminum etc the most bought in our market

the entitlement is more like we have been taxing you for years and in some cases a much much much higher tariff
but how dare you return the sentiment and by the way you will defend us as well you are here to serve us
we demand you give us your money in these taxes and have equal pricing in your market and be defended by you

seems a bit much mate

as for Australia its not even touching your main imports to the us would you prefer 25-50 percent tariffs on say the top 5
items you place on our market... because I'm down for it



Australia Exports to United States Value Year
Meat and edible meat offal $4.03B 2024
Pearls, precious stones, metals, coins $2.02B 2024
Pharmaceutical products $1.35B 2024
Optical, photo, technical, medical apparatus $1.20B 2024
Machinery, nuclear reactors, boilers $1.16B 2024
Electrical, electronic equipment $686.78M 2024
Aircraft, spacecraft $663.41M 2024
Animal, vegetable fats and oils, cleavage products $275.71M 2024
Aluminum $268.58M 2024
Iron and steel $265.75M 2024

[Dmanwuzhere]

The idea is allegedly to force the US to up our production for domestic purposes. But one major roadblock to that is that would require more factories to be built, which is now way more expensive because of the tarrifs. Complete domestic self sufficiency is something that must be eased into. The stock market shows it

I guess you haven't been to say Pittsburgh or other cities where factories have been dormant for years
we have factories all over the USA

we made everything here at one point
but then we incentivized companies moving over seas
which was the billionaires making decisions to benefit themselves
because even with 40-80 percent of costs being eradicated for the manufacturing
they never lowered the price and continually upped them

again you have no problem not easing into homes being built for the crazy amount of illegals
or easing schools hospitals daycares etc being overburdened by the same

but if America tries to better itself it should slow down lol

[Dmanwuzhere]

doubtful. I don't think the problem with our education is we are not spending enough money, it's the money being spent is being mismanaged.

In 2021, the U.S. spent $20,387 per pupil on education, which is the 3rd highest among the 40 developed nations in the OECD.

Yet despite that, we are not doing very well, ranking in the 20's, our math was ranked 28th. So, despite spending more than anyone else save for 2, the results are not promising. Now could funneling more money improve this- maybe, but if they aren't managing the large amount of money they already get properly, giving them more will probably have minimal effect-most of it will probably just wind up wasted. Would be better to make things more efficient, so that the money goes further, rather then just funneling more and more money into a system that isn't working out all that well.

Too many people have this mindset that, if you throw enough money into a system or at a problem, it will eventually work out. The problem is that what good is giving money, when most of it doesn't actually get used for the right purpose, and just ends up in some bureaucrat's pocket, or spent on some frivolous idea that some politician in DC decides is a good idea?

its 9.2k per student here in Tn

and then just a couple days ago you get this
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/middle-tennessee-graduate-sues-school-district-says-he-couldnt-read-despite-3-4-gpa

[Meliva]

yeah, there's a reason why so many people mock the american education system. It's pretty bad. Funneling more money into it, won't magically fix it. If you gave the Department of education a 1 millions dollar donation to help educate kids, I think you'd be lucky if a thousand dollars was spent on something actually beneficial. Most of it would wind up in various pockets of federal workers, administrators and other middlemen before finally reaching a school.

Plus, what we actually focus on, is also pretty bad. Reading, writing, mathematics, are all vital, and I feel not enough effort is given to them. Having classes about how to do adult things would be a good investment too. Learning how taxes work, how to file them, how to write a resume, first aid lessons, some home economics etc.

[Dmanwuzhere]

yeah, there's a reason why so many people mock the american education system. It's pretty bad. Funneling more money into it, won't magically fix it. If you gave the Department of education a 1 millions dollar donation to help educate kids, I think you'd be lucky if a thousand dollars was spent on something actually beneficial. Most of it would wind up in various pockets of federal workers, administrators and other middlemen before finally reaching a school.

Plus, what we actually focus on, is also pretty bad. Reading, writing, mathematics, are all vital, and I feel not enough effort is given to them. Having classes about how to do adult things would be a good investment too. Learning how taxes work, how to file them, how to write a resume, first aid lessons, some home economics etc.

The funny thing is they introduce gender crap in but took out cursive writing due to it being unnecessary. The worlds went nuts

[Meliva]

funny thing about cursive. I remember being taught it in I believe elementary, but I can't recall any lessons past that. I don't think I ever fully learned to write it, just the basics, and even today I can't write in cursive. I can sign my own name, but that's it. Thankfully, that's the most important part .

I think they cut it out back while I was going through school. I really don't remember having any lessons of it aside from way back when. So, late 90's, early 2000's. I also remember when michelle obama ruined school lunches. they were never great to begin with, but we had a few good items, but while in highschool, it got pretty bad.

[Leo]

doubtful. I don't think the problem with our education is we are not spending enough money, it's the money being spent is being mismanaged.

It's a little of both. The entire public schools system is set up to filter out the smart and dumb kids, so that the dumb ones end up working in factories and the smart ones go to college. I think a lot of the problem is that schools dump so much money into things like advanced math classes that the vast majority of kids aren't gonna need after high school, and then put little to no money into programs actually meant to prepare students for life. For instance never got a financial literacy class, and my econ class was far from that. Never learned how to do taxes, how to apply for jobs, or even how write a resume or a cover letter. All of this I had to learn on my own. Advanced math if needed, can be taken for free at a community college for dual enrollment in almost every state if not nationwide. There's no need to have 3 different sections of advanced calculus in high schools when students who need to take those classes for their future education can spend half the time at a community college taking classes while still in high school, earning them HS and college credit. Someone who plans on going into trades probably won't need any math past maybe intermediate algebra. So why is so much money dumped into those programs? And when the budget gets tight, money is first taken away from the art and music programs. Why? And there's STILL no classes to teach you many many basic and vital skills for the real world.

But also, often times there simply just isn't enough funding. The people that run the school districts often have no teaching experience whatsoever but make 300k a year. They get to call the shots on what programs get cut, what policies to enforce and where to allocate money. My highschool got slashed $1.2M the year after I left. I can't believe we even had that much money to slash considering the quality of schooling was so terrible. But glad I made it out before the budget cuts.

I'm one of the people that does require those extra math classes. But college classes, even ones at free community college are just so much higher quality than those at high school. For one because you get to pick your professor, but also they just need to reach a higher standard of teaching. One of my high school math teachers was a 80 year old senile man that refused to retire and couldn't even form coherent sentences. We'd have been better off with Joe Biden teaching the class. Eventually he was fired though for calling one of the students the N word, hard R and everything, TWICE.

In any case, not enough funding yes but also the funds they have are being managed by people who have no clue what they're doing because they've never taught a day in their life.

[Meliva]

You proved my point for me Leo. You didn't even know your school had a budge big enough that they could slash it by over a million dollars. There is more than enough funding. It's just too much of it is wasted on idiots who make 6 figure salaries, and end up providing little to no actual benefit or spent on things that provide no educational benefits.

Again Leo, we spend more money on education per student then all but TWO nations. Yet our education ranking is FAR from 3rd best. That proves that funding isn't an issue, it's where and how that funding is being used. I mean, think of it this way. If you send a billion dollars to try to improve the living standards of a third world country, do you believe it would make things far better? The sad answer is, probably not, unless you personally oversee it, as if you give that money to the government of a third world country, it would largely just go into the pockets of those government officials, or used to buy weapons and things that don't actually help the citizens.

[Stan Rogers]

Canada put tariffs on us and while they have a ton of 2-3 percent tariffs (which is a steady drain of our cash)
they have quite a few that are over 130 percent, dairy over x amount is 200 percent.

so lets take the dairy ... it doesn't promote distrust it merely keeps Canadians dairy the most bought in Canada

What you spout is bulcrap. you pretty quick to pull up stats for Australia but none for Canada/
Reason being it would out the misinformation you bloviated.

Canada's dairy poultry and limber is all regulated to produce exactly what the country needs and consumes. All considered critical basic needs of life. You cannot start a farm in any province and sell to the market. You need a quota issued. Quota's prevent big corps from swallowing smaller producers and prevent a market glut driving prices down to where a small guy cannot compete or operate. No free market for those three things.

The USA tariff only applies to when USA tried to sell more dairy to Canada above the agreed upon amount as directed by CUSMA.

Mack... USA does not give (subsidise) Canada for anything. We sell raw products to the USA and USA sells Canada manufactured goods. If you think Canada should just give our oil natural gas and electricity to the USA, try that first next time you visit the store and see how it works out.
You think the imbalance is bad now, soon as Canada starst charging the usa full market price instead of the preferred customer discount, you still have no reason to complain. Wew do not need to sell to the USA as the EU and the asian market will happily buy our raw materials. We'll have new markets and an eastern pipeline built by the time you revamp your factories that been mothballed for years. Better get your refineries refitted to take your light sweet crude as well just in case Canada does not have the surplus to sell any excess crude after our dependable customers have been looked after.