Trump 2020!

[Whitcomb The Feared]

it is not a dream in switzerland we voted for 2500$ per month and per person and it could work, but population refused. In Scandinavian countries it already exists ... in denmark every student gets 800$ just to study.
Someone has to pay for it, rich people will. Rich people are the ones generating inflation, meaning the loss of value of the entire money ! (i am an economist sorry). so rich people - overall on the financial market - generate the inflation and all the community "suffers" from it. So it is also right to tax those financial assets to redistribute a little bit.
Every single day, on the world financial markets, transit 5'000 billion of $ ! it means that in 4 days in all the financial markets on the planet circulate the equivalent of what the entire USA produce in one year (the US GDP is 19'000 billion of $). Do you think it is normal ? as we have seen in 2008 is that the deregulation of financial markets can put in danger all the economies, but on that side we did nothing and this is a shame, but when there are discussions about helping the poors (many also lost everything after the financial crisis caused by banks and financial deregulation) or giving out "free" money to the people ... this is impossible

in switzerland now arrives a new popular poll, the idea to tax all the financial transactions with a tax of 0.000X % ... so if every single day on the financial market there are transactions for 5000 billion of $, switzerland counts as 5% of the total financial market ... meaning, 250 billion. you tax at even 0.001% and you gain every single day around 25 million on taxes. Multiply that by 365 days and you see that you could THEORETICALLY erase all taxes on normal people, paying even free money to everyone, covering all the expenses, ... and so on and so on just we need the political willingness to do that (btw who is interested, the tax is called TOBIN TAX)

Just don't forget that all your money creation is in the hand of private banks and in a minimal part in the hand of the FED. so good luck when banks will start "printing" too much money (as we saw in 2008 with the crisis) and we also saw the disaster it brought. US financial market is around 10 or 20% of the total share ... so 20% out of 5000 billion of $ means ... well, a lot. in one year all the USA generate the amount of money that circulates in 2 weeks on the american financial markets ! if US financial markets collaps ... USA will cover in one year what the banks have lost in 2 weeks ! don't you think it is also too strange to exist ?

[Mack]

ok i dont understand why you keep pointing out it takes a year to make the amount the finacial market makes in 2 weeks.

are you insisting the US GDP is under valued?

are you insisting the world come together and make the poor less so?

[Whitcomb The Feared]

I insist on that point because many times they tell us that we don't have enough funds. We do have funds if we tax the right people. People who generate inflation which affects badly everyone.
And in case of crisis, the state has to pay for the private debts made by banks, as it happened in 2008 everywhere. Banks refunded with statal money paid by our taxes.

It is why i insist that the financial market is growing too much and in case of crash it will be impossible to maintain it at a decent level to avoid mass fires or the pass of the crisis from the financial to the real economy.
It is why states should tax the creators of inflation and tax them for the risk they take and the future risks of crisis.

[The Lamb]

So i am not an economist, but i do have a Masters in Business so im gonna give this a shot...

All socialism looks great on paper. The math is always there and so simple, its a wonder all the socialist countries all eventually came crashing down, they all got it wrong, but if we do it this way.....right?

So i can prove that an elephant can hang over a cliff by attaching its tail to a dandelion with the right amount of updraft. Really i can, its so obvious, why haven't they tried it before? Well because in the real world it wouldn't work.

Socialism is utopia on paper, but on paper you can control all the variables. In the real world socialism is a hungry beast that must continuously be fed to work right, as the size of the population gets bigger the variables grow, control slips, socialism starts to fail and one must institute more controls to control the variables and maintain its hunger. At about this time leaders then become all mighty, a police state is needed to control the variables, and the socialist government starts its death spiral to collapse or revolution. Happens every time! Or they have all just done it wrong, and your college econ teacher had it all right all along...

Redistribution of wealth is also called stealing. If you have 5 dollars in your pocket and i had none, you are the wealthier than I, so can i reach into your pocket and take 2.50? No thats stealing. It turns out that not every one is equal. No everyone can afford the newest I-Phone every three months, or afford to drive an Audi, and i heard a rumor that a degree in gender studies wont get you a 6 figure job no matter how many times you say it will. So why should i have to give money to someone else because i chose to get a masters degree in something that would offer tangible benefits instead of happy feelings? All it amounts to is envious people stealing from others.

Thats the reason that most of the European nations that tried the wealth tax, repealed it after if back fired horribly. Turns out if you try to steal money from the richest people, they just move and now you have no income, just ask NYC how their budget is looking since the millionaire flight (60 billion dollar deficit this year)and France how those Gas taxes went for them (hear alot of building were burned). But the money had to come somewhere after they ran off the wealthy so high taxes for all! Wooohooo!

The idea to just keep attacking the rich is very short sighted, for they provide the capital, experience to start those companies, experience to run those companies, capital to hire us, they also bought the means of production (equipment, materials, buildings) and they carry all the risk if things dont work. They are not the enemies, people are just jealous and think they are owed something for nothing. Me, me, me, but enough about me lest talk about me!

Lastly, stop with the Norwegian examples. They are capitalist economies, with hybrid social programs, high taxes, small homogeneous populations and very small defense budgets to support those programs.

But once again, im not an economist, so what do i know

[Meliva]

Exactly. If you try to tax the rich too much, guess what, they have the money and the ability to go somewhere else that won't tax them as much. The folks who CANT do that are those with far less money. And once the super wealthy leave, you now need a new cash cow. So you target the wealthy, and if they manage to leave, you target the well off. Eventually everyone who could leave has left and those that remain are poor from having to make up the difference of all those who left.

[The Lamb]

Yeah, I went through college later in life, and learned that there is an echo chamber of re-affirming horse shart ideas that some of these professors spout as original thoughts. The rule of thumb is... if it really were that easy, evident and obvious a solution, everyone would already be doing it, whcih means, it doesnt work.

Since so many didnt get to see what real socialism does to people in the end (USSR), these professors just regurgitate the same crappy ideas, call it something new and pass it off as earth shaking truth, and these damn kids eat it up. When you bring up all the socialists failers its always because "the just didn't do it right" lmao. Like all of a sudden, tax the rich more will fix everything for everyone. Why stop there, if they have more than one car, they have to give the extras to other people, and take their house away, they are too big... It may actually be nice, i wont have any incentive to work hard anymore since all i have to do is claim my new check... Hmmm... but then my income would be much lower and they wont get as much tax from me but i will be able to live out my life in a simple mediocrity where other people have to support me...woohoo

Only problem I see with the welfare state idea, is that if everyone shoots for mediocrity, because why be rich, then GDP will drop, but if GDP drops, we will have to tax the normal people more to compensate, they may not like that so we will have to increase policing to keep them at bay, but that will cost more, so we need to increase taxes...... and so on, and so on, and so on... BOOOOOMMMM

The goal should never be to make some people poorer to be equal (wealth redistribution) that is a lazy idea at best, it should be to create wealth for those who dont have it to make them richer and more equal fiscally.

[Most Lee Harmless]

One of the greatest 'smoke and mirrors' of our time is the focus on the headline 'income tax' rate as being the measure of the taxation burden on citizens. It's not. Consumption taxation gets ignored. That's all those taxes that get wrapped up in the price you pay for stuff. Tarrifs, duties, sales taxes, (VAT in Europe). Local taxation on property or residence adds in too. Bear in mind, these taxes have to be paid out of your already taxed income.

So the whole taxation burden is never transparent nor simple. That's why governments trumpet headline income tax cuts but rarely give the same level of public acclaim to the tariffs on imports that increase the prices paid by all. Unless it's as part of some 'trade war' scenario portrayed as benefiting us.
It would be interesting to see just how much has flowed into government (all sides) coffers from the recent round of tit-for-tat tariff hikes : that is where the tariffs go, you know. And who pays them.. the folk buying the imported goods. You.

[The Lamb]

Great Point Danik... I would even go as far as to say, get rid of income tax for everyone, and have a federal sales tax that would increase with costs to "x" cap. To me, would be far fairer and everyone would contribute. The people who buy less goods, pay less over all tax, the ones who buy more would pay more tax.

[Mack]

although Trump is a great man, i dont remeber him saying he could rebuild the tax system

[T-swizzle]

for the record trump hasn't been impeached yet because the articles that were voted on haven't been sent to the senate whenever they are sent it is official, essentially the impeachment is only finalized when the trial is started