Following the earlier discussion, this is our final proposal on the matter:

Step 1: COMPLETED

When: Immediate (as soon as possible)
What: Fishing formula change to: Ship Crew/5 + Ship Cargo/5 - Cannons per hour
Why: It eliminates the cheap ships fishing vessels issue.


Step 2: Suggestion Link

When: Futurely, before step 3
What: Add a new officer: Fisherman, Every Fishing Route will require a Fisherman
Why: Will make Fishing a more strategic option

Addon-Changes: Bribe will allow the caster to select the type of officer.


Step 3: Suggestion Link

When: Futurely, scheduled after Academy Hideout Building
What: New special fishing ship called Dogger.

Characteristics:
15 crew members, 100 cargo, no cannons, 12.500 base cost, material cost a little higher than fluyt, low HP, +20 Fishing Production bonus, ship speed similar to howker.
Which means that with proposed formula, this ship will produce 43 crates per hour or 1032 crates per day or 10,320 gold coins per day (51.6k per fleet).

Why: Adds specialization to fishing with better output for those who choose it.


Step 4:

When: Alongside with Step 3
What: New technology in Academy called Fishing

Characteristics: It will define how many Doggers you will be able to build in the shipwright or buy in the ship market.
Other details (cost and the maximum number of doggers allowed) will be decided at a later day.
Worth noticing: Looting fishing boats will not be included in the restriction. So anyone, will be able to have as large fishing fleet as he wishes, if he can loot it. Even without a Hideout.

Why: Adds specialization to fishing with better output for those who choose it.

This will be the official topic to use for all fishing tweaks in the future.
We will proceed in the implentation of Step 1 in the near future.

Captains of ships are sometimes called "Skipper". Perhaps using a Skipper to captain a fishing boat would denote the diff between a Captain of a regular fleet and a Skipper of a fishing fleet. Just a thought for what it's worth.

Will current fishing routes officers be converted automatically or how will the transition work?

This chapter (#2) will not be implemented right away. We will allow some time before implementing it in order to let captains issue iron out and also allow time to players with an academy to research officers contracts. Also, the delay is required to allow fishing to expand without much pressure (Doggers cost, Technology costs are already enough for a starting point).

Once implemented (if implemented), all existing Fishing Routes will not be affected. However, for every new Fishing Trade route, an officer will be required. This means that if you have 20 Fishing Routes, you will need 21 Officers before you will be able to create a new one.

I think the current fishing formula is poorly implemented and makes fishing all but pointless. Below is the current fishing formula and the optimal calculated rates for each ship.

Code: Select all

Current Fishing Formula (per hour) = (Ship's Crew / 5) + (Ship's Cargo Capacity / 5) - Ship's Cannon Slots

The stats speak for themselves. It is ridiculous that a Brigantine that has the same amount of cargo space as a Howker and over 3 times the crew produces about 60 crates less per day. SotLs are even worse.

From a very general standpoint fishing should come down to crew. A crew of 20 should catch more fish than a crew of 10. Since their is no chance to fishing and you can't have a standard rate across the board, the simplest way is to use cargo capacity and cannons. My suggestion is to use the existing formula but modify the "cannon slots" to "cannons on ship". So the number of cannons "installed" on the ship affects the production, allowing a range of rates and options. This gives you a more even rise of production compared to crew size, but at the same time, to keep that production you raise the risk of keeping your ships unprotected.

Below is the suggested formula, and the optimal rates. Rates for each ship would vary based on both crew and cannons.

Code: Select all

Suggested Fishing Formula (per hour) = (Ship's Crew / 5) + (Ship's Cargo Capacity / 5) - Ship's Cannons Onboard (Installed)

I somewhat like your proposal dez, but I think if implemented it would make the ship they are thinking of adding useless. but I do want fishing to be more profitable. as it is, it just doesn't really seem worth it. I heard they had to nerf it before, so the problem Is finding a good balance

This causes war ships to be more productive at fishing than trade ships, which is unrealistic. I agree the formula needs a tweak but this is not the proper tweak to be made. Personally I think that the ships cargo space should not effect how quickly you gain fish, only how long it takes to fill. If me and my friends are filling a bucket with marbles then the rate that we add marbles to the bucket is dependent on how many friends are working on it, not how big the bucket is. I know it's an off the wall analogy but I think it's accurate. Also I think that the quantity of fish gained each hour should be random within a range from zero to ten instead of fixed at five. In real life you don't get the same number of fish in your net every time you pull it in.

Nicholi wrote:This causes war ships to be more productive at fishing than trade ships, which is unrealistic. I agree the formula needs a tweak but this is not the proper tweak to be made. Personally I think that the ships cargo space should not effect how quickly you gain fish, only how long it takes to fill. If me and my friends are filling a bucket with marbles then the rate that we add marbles to the bucket is dependent on how many friends are working on it, not how big the bucket is. I know it's an off the wall analogy but I think it's accurate. Also I think that the quantity of fish gained each hour should be random within a range from zero to ten instead of fixed at five. In real life you don't get the same number of fish in your net every time you pull it in.

some good points nicholi. although with dez's proposal war ships would be more productive, but only if you remove the cannons. and considering war ships prime purpose is for fighting, having quite a few without cannons would be somewhat of a waste.
would also make taking them much easier. his proposal would make SotL the best fishing fleet without cannons. but can you imagine how easy it would be to steal them. it would be a pirates wet dream

Nicholi wrote:This causes war ships to be more productive at fishing than trade ships, which is unrealistic. I agree the formula needs a tweak but this is not the proper tweak to be made. Personally I think that the ships cargo space should not effect how quickly you gain fish, only how long it takes to fill. If me and my friends are filling a bucket with marbles then the rate that we add marbles to the bucket is dependent on how many friends are working on it, not how big the bucket is. I know it's an off the wall analogy but I think it's accurate. Also I think that the quantity of fish gained each hour should be random within a range from zero to ten instead of fixed at five. In real life you don't get the same number of fish in your net every time you pull it in.

Yes, but at the cost of warships being warships. For a warship to be an effective warship it requires cannons. For the warship to produce at the high rates, you would have to remove the cannons. This leaves them extremely vulnerable. There is great risk for the reward.

Furthermore, with the current setup, there are already a few warships that produce at a higher rate of production than some trade ships and still have a full stock of cannons. Players are more likely to have trade ships with no cannons than warships with no cannons. My setup allows the smaller trade ships with no cannons to out produce an expensive warship that has full cannons.

Meliva wrote:I somewhat like your proposal dez, but I think if implemented it would make the ship they are thinking of adding useless. but I do want fishing to be more profitable. as it is, it just doesn't really seem worth it. I heard they had to nerf it before, so the problem Is finding a good balance

Since the Dogger is still in the planning stages and hasn't been implemented, it wouldn't take much to modify it to make it a more robust fishing ship.