No Cannons - Levi Assault Win?: Need Feedback

[Meliva]

If they don't want to add cannons then fine that is their choice, but that choice needs to come with some downside. You gain with the choice by not having to pay the upkeep, but no one with any common sense would sail unarmed ships and expect to win a battle.

There already is a downside-no cannons means their ships don't fire back, and are mostly defenseless.

That levi assault winning the battle is something that will probably never happen if the attacker uses 5 ships except with crazy luck. Shadow used only 1 and it cost him an easy victory.

[sXs]

If they don't want to add cannons then fine that is their choice, but that choice needs to come with some downside. You gain with the choice by not having to pay the upkeep, but no one with any common sense would sail unarmed ships and expect to win a battle.

There already is a downside-no cannons means their ships don't fire back, and are mostly defenseless.

That levi assault winning the battle is something that will probably never happen if the attacker uses 5 ships except with crazy luck. Shadow used only 1 and it cost him an easy victory.

Still disagree 100% with this, but it makes no difference. You all have the game you want. A game where traders rule. A game where a fisherman can have a specialized ship but a pirate can't, A game where you can win a port without firing a single shot. A game where millions.... or even billions can be made trading, but god forbid we throw a bone to a pirate, regardless of the name of the game, a game that relies entirely on voodoo and people are ok with that, but yet they ***** about someone who uses it without any ships(witch doctors) yet every single suggestion to fix this gets shot down, a game whose biggest upgrade in years is rolled out without any guide what so ever and whose mechanics are a complete secret, and despite multiple complaints about how it functions, it is allowed to go on unchanged.

A game where "for the good of the game' is ridiculed and made fun of.

Enjoy ..... I am out.

[Meliva]

If they don't want to add cannons then fine that is their choice, but that choice needs to come with some downside. You gain with the choice by not having to pay the upkeep, but no one with any common sense would sail unarmed ships and expect to win a battle.

There already is a downside-no cannons means their ships don't fire back, and are mostly defenseless.

That levi assault winning the battle is something that will probably never happen if the attacker uses 5 ships except with crazy luck. Shadow used only 1 and it cost him an easy victory.

Still disagree 100% with this, but it makes no difference. You all have the game you want. A game where traders rule. A game where a fisherman can have a specialized ship but a pirate can't, A game where you can win a port without firing a single shot. A game where millions.... or even billions can be made trading, but god forbid we throw a bone to a pirate, regardless of the name of the game, a game that relies entirely on voodoo and people are ok with that, but yet they ***** about someone who uses it without any ships(witch doctors) yet every single suggestion to fix this gets shot down, a game whose biggest upgrade in years is rolled out without any guide what so ever and whose mechanics are a complete secret, and despite multiple complaints about how it functions, it is allowed to go on unchanged.

A game where "for the good of the game' is ridiculed and made fun of.

Enjoy ..... I am out.

Many of those things do need to be improved on or added-along with others like diplomacy, forts and many others. But none of those have anything to do with what you were suggesting earlier in this thread. Cannons shouldn't be forced on all players. I'm all for pirates getting some sort of boost-they need it, and port warfare should involve ships. But those are things that need to be discussed and worked on. And in their own thread. And I would never make fun of someone trying to make the game better-but forcing cannons on everyone isn't going to do that.

Shame you're leaving, but have a good one.

[sXs]

If they don't want to add cannons then fine that is their choice, but that choice needs to come with some downside. You gain with the choice by not having to pay the upkeep, but no one with any common sense would sail unarmed ships and expect to win a battle.

There already is a downside-no cannons means their ships don't fire back, and are mostly defenseless.

That levi assault winning the battle is something that will probably never happen if the attacker uses 5 ships except with crazy luck. Shadow used only 1 and it cost him an easy victory.

Many of those things do need to be improved on or added-along with others like diplomacy, forts and many others. But none of those have anything to do with what you were suggesting earlier in this thread. Cannons shouldn't be forced on all players. I'm all for pirates getting some sort of boost-they need it, and port warfare should involve ships. But those are things that need to be discussed and worked on. And in their own thread. And I would never make fun of someone trying to make the game better-but forcing cannons on everyone isn't going to do that.

Shame you're leaving, but have a good one.

Your wrong, they are all related. Theya re all part of the mindset built into this game over the years. Every single point is related. And I am not trying to force anyone to do anything. It is a choice. But making that choice should come with consequences not just benefits. Right now choosing to not be armed comes with the benfit of no daily upkeep for cost of cannons, and still win 5% of the battles based completely on a random event. Consequence .... none more than before ship traits. A win. Added benefits with no added risk or expense. It is funny, when I started I heard about this rift between traders and raiders and game mechanics. How they look at things completely differently. This proves the point.

[sXs]

And as far as "all those things need to improved" or addressed? We tried. No one was willing to compromise so you get what you get. Same here. No compromise.

[Meliva]

It's not even 5 percent mate. Have you even read how the effect even works? It doesn't even have a chance to happen until at least 3 rounds have passed. And then there is a 5% chance it triggers per round.

A decent war ship should be able to mop up most trade ships in a couple rounds before they even have a chance of triggering it. Shadows sloop of war just didn't have the firepower to do that.

And ship traits work both ways. A pirate's sloop could trigger a leviathan and sink a merchants flag galleon escort. And honestly I think most merchants would prefer a different trait then levi assault. Extra cargo, or levi immunity for example. So cases like this will be pretty damn rare, especially if pirates take precautions against it.

You keep talking about consequences and benefits. Well merchants do have downsides, especially with no cannons. They can lose millions easily when lit up. And with no cannons or escorts a small fleet of cheap war ships can mop most of them up easily. When I was a merchant I kept Flag galleons escorts and armed all my ships. It cost more, but when I was lit up I suffered fewer attacks.

Making all ship traits locked unless cannons are bought is just pointless. I wouldn't expect a pirate to carry full cargo to access his traits, why expect a merchant to be armed with cannons to access his?

[sXs]

It's not even 5 percent mate. Have you even read how the effect even works? It doesn't even have a chance to happen until at least 3 rounds have passed. And then there is a 5% chance it triggers per round.

A decent war ship should be able to mop up most trade ships in a couple rounds before they even have a chance of triggering it. Shadows sloop of war just didn't have the firepower to do that.

And ship traits work both ways. A pirate's sloop could trigger a leviathan and sink a merchants flag galleon escort. And honestly I think most merchants would prefer a different trait then levi assault. Extra cargo, or levi immunity for example. So cases like this will be pretty damn rare, especially if pirates take precautions against it.

You keep talking about consequences and benefits. Well merchants do have downsides, especially with no cannons. They can lose millions easily when lit up. And with no cannons or escorts a small fleet of cheap war ships can mop most of them up easily. When I was a merchant I kept Flag galleons escorts and armed all my ships. It cost more, but when I was lit up I suffered fewer attacks.

Making all ship traits locked unless cannons are bought is just pointless. I wouldn't expect a pirate to carry full cargo to access his traits, why expect a merchant to be armed with cannons to access his?

Yes but those were all there before ship attributes. Nothing changed in that respect. Yet now they get benefit for no additional cost. Yes I know it is 5% That is why i think requiring a call levi for it to be triggered is not asking a lot. But I figured some would consider that too expensive even at 5%. So I compromised and suggested cannons be required on the ship with levi assault which is only about 17% of all ships. I never said every ship in the fleet needed cannons, only the ones with levi assault or fire assault. so maybe 34% of all ships.

Lets say you have a1000 ships trading for ease of math all LMM
340 would require cannons
340x20x140=952,000 total gc investment
and a daily upkeep cost of 6400.

is that really asking alot of someone with 1000 trade ships? granted numbers are inflated

6800 in daily upkeep is a "fart in the wind" as my grandpa used to say. In other words it is insignificant.

Why is this such a big ask?

[Meliva]

Yes but those were all there before ship attributes. Nothing changed in that respect. Yet now they get benefit for no additional cost. Yes I know it is 5% That is why i think requiring a call levi for it to be triggered is not asking a lot. But I figured some would consider that too expensive even at 5%. So I compromised and suggested cannons be required on the ship with levi assault which is only about 17% of all ships. I never said every ship in the fleet needed cannons, only the ones with levi assault or fire assault. so maybe 34% of all ships.

Lets say you have a1000 ships trading for ease of math all LMM
340 would require cannons
340x20x140=952,000 total gc investment
and a daily upkeep cost of 6400.

is that really asking alot of someone with 1000 trade ships? granted numbers are inflated

6800 in daily upkeep is a "fart in the wind" as my grandpa used to say. In other words it is insignificant.

Why is this such a big ask?

The question is why is it needed? This isn't a merchant exclusive trait, pirates can get it too. Cannons have no impact on this trait, nor should they. It's calling a leviathan not using any sort of weapon.

And again, you make it sound like with this trait, any merchant fleet has a 5% chance to win a battle. That is NOT the case. Even if we were to assume that every bloody ship in a merchant's fleet has this trait, each ship only has a 5% chance STARTING from the 3rd round. A good warship could sink most trade ships before the 3rd round. My flag galleons can sink LMM by round 2. And even IF it get's off a levi my next flag will finish it off in round 1 and rinse and repeat the next 5 ships.

All this trait does is make smaller ships have a chance of losing due to this trait. And even then it's a small bloody chance unless you go around hitting them with one ship fleets in which case the odds are a bit more favorable, though still very unlikely.

Edit-the trait would kick in most often in big fights between war fleets which can last many rounds. Most merchant ships don't last long enough to pull it off.

[sXs]

Yes but those were all there before ship attributes. Nothing changed in that respect. Yet now they get benefit for no additional cost. Yes I know it is 5% That is why i think requiring a call levi for it to be triggered is not asking a lot. But I figured some would consider that too expensive even at 5%. So I compromised and suggested cannons be required on the ship with levi assault which is only about 17% of all ships. I never said every ship in the fleet needed cannons, only the ones with levi assault or fire assault. so maybe 34% of all ships.

Lets say you have a1000 ships trading for ease of math all LMM
340 would require cannons
340x20x140=952,000 total gc investment
and a daily upkeep cost of 6400.

is that really asking alot of someone with 1000 trade ships? granted numbers are inflated

6800 in daily upkeep is a "fart in the wind" as my grandpa used to say. In other words it is insignificant.

Why is this such a big ask?

The question is why is it needed? This isn't a merchant exclusive trait, pirates can get it too. Cannons have no impact on this trait, nor should they. It's calling a leviathan not using any sort of weapon.

Well then since it is calling a leviathan, exactly how was that done in game mechanics before ship traits? It was done with a voodoo card. Since this is your driving point, then having the card would be your answer. After all that is how it is done. No? Too expensive? Well then in lieu of that i C O M P R O M I S E D. and suggested cannons be required.

[sXs]

Thanks for pointing that out and making my point for me. Appreciate your support on that.