Weather/Wind/Location/Routes Expansion

[Dejanira]

While I'm totally happy with the new features, I agree with

Diplomacy and nation security needs to be worked on before adding more things to them that can put them at further risk. But I do like all the ideas, even the port building ones so long as nation security is revised and improved.

Diplomacy would be an easy update, woulnd't it? Not that big and hardworking like new routes, weather, a whole new danger system (maybe not even based on points... so completely to develop if I understand correctly).

I want the new stuff, but I'd prefer a little more importance to Diplomacy before

[Captain Jack]

How much of the first part needs to be built in order to get on to the 2nd part ?

1 (Map) and 2 (Locations) of Part 1 are prerequisites for anything else.
3 (Lots of Space) of Part 1 is not required for anything of the Part 2 as it is mainly how the acreage ownership will work.

Regarding the 'property' proposals : I have no interest in them. Until nations get some level of safeguarding for their current assets then adding more to be put at risk makes no sense to me at all. We have enough deep holes to be throwing our diminishing piles of gold into never to be seen again : we dont need more.

What assets nations currently have that need safeguarding? Would you like to point out which are the deep holes?

Diplomacy and nation security needs to be worked on before adding more things to them that can put them at further risk. But I do like all the ideas, even the port building ones so long as nation security is revised and improved.

What do we need at diplomacy front and nation security? Can you point to 1 or 2 things that come to your mind?

I think the whole thing is a wonderful Idea giving much to be built on later.
The wind in areas should be predisposed to certain directions like in real life.

The necessity to incorporate the wind is what mainly shaped the rest of the ideas. I would say that "wind" holds the key for unlocking the game warfare and not only this. I also have done some research even in wind names we could use. The wind will be an ever present piece of information that you will be able to find at:
-The port screen
-Information of every fleet
-Information of every battle

It should dictate much of the gameplay, in the future.

A whole new danger system (maybe not even based on points... so completely to develop if I understand correctly).

Regarding the Danger system,there is no further insight. I am processing the whole concept myself as well. You are invited to participate in the process. Development wise, we cannot afford to remove it because it is connected to a lot of features, what will these features become?

Gameplay wise, again we cannot do much, like an upheaval. Mostly because the danger system has some specific pros that are needed by the style of game we have here.

This is why I am mostly thinking to remove the port to port rule and alongside it, we will remove the -1 danger on top of the hour rule. If we did this now, it would still work. Fleets would only gain and lose danger through warfare and cards, which is pretty much what already happens for most players. The only main difference would be that you wouldn't be able to wait the danger out. It's not a biggie though.

As for the additions, I am thinking that we could have some missions, like the Shipwreck Hunt for fleets. Here are two examples (pardon the ugly names):
Scan for Targets:
This will allow for scanning over a broad period. It will cost a bit more in time and probably it will have a penalty in danger earned. The fleet will patrol at the designated area till the suitable target (options will be provided for broad or specific targeting) is found. Once found, a battle will be done, regardless if you are around. Then the fleet will return to the set spot (configurable).

Wait for Targets:
This will allow for attacks at a specific point of the map. This will have no time overhead (as no patrol will be needed). This will mainly by useful as you will be able to recall your fleet and use it within seconds, in contrary with the Scan for targets mission, which will require 1 or 2 hours to return after you recall it (or after it engages a target). However, target selection and how the system will work, should be identical. We will mainly provide different functionality in terms of fleet availability while we can also experiment with different danger penalties for the aggressor.

From there after, there are a gazillion of ideas on how to tailor it. Here are some points of interest:
-Such attacks will not be skirmish. They will be plunders.
-Target spotting might add danger points to fleets founds.
-Target assault could be possible only after a set number of danger points has been accumulated.
-Or master's (the ship captain) experience could play a role here. Whether we speak about the fleet that attacks or defends.
-Wind would play marvelously here, ship speeds, etc. Let's not forget for how long we want to simulate chasing.

The primary objective is to choose a model that facilitates all sorts of gameplay players. I think that Skirmish system has proved that this is viable. We just need to find the right way to implement it.

In the same time, we need to think of countermeasures for every offensive action we design. However, the system above is balanced by design as you cannot attack an unlimited number of targets with the same fleet. This is where owning multiple warfare fleets will start (at last) to play the role that needs to play.

[Grimrock Litless]

Fleets can be traveling in a ocean and battles can be had in those oceans instead of just port ship battles, like currently, because that's a feelsweirdman.

[PFH]

Fleets can be traveling in a ocean and battles can be had in those oceans instead of just port ship battles, like currently, because that's a feelsweirdman.

I agree with grim on that one, despite his way of putting it.

“Naming the waters!” could help with arranging where battles are set

[Meliva]

Diplomacy and nation security needs to be worked on before adding more things to them that can put them at further risk. But I do like all the ideas, even the port building ones so long as nation security is revised and improved.

What do we need at diplomacy front and nation security? Can you point to 1 or 2 things that come to your mind?

Well the main thing is recently the US and St. Kitts had a war. Now before any hostility started there was a peace treaty between our nations-despite this, they stole one of our ports-the treaty was still in effect, and was never broken. Then they stole a second port and again-treaty still remained. St. kitts ended up deciding to annul the treaty as it was about as useful as wet toilet paper, which took several days. All in all it was a colossal mess.

This really showed me just how worthless diplomacy is at the moment. All it does is effect hostility gains, which are easily worked around. A nation that has a peace or alliance with another shouldn't be able to steal their allies ports. They should need to either go neutral before hand or declare war. Trade bonuses should also be a part of alliances, where we can offer our port bonuses to our allies, and vice versa.

[Most Lee Harmless]

What assets... mmm... additional acres for one. Nation treasury for another. And the buildings proposal will create more stuff an invader can inherit. Nice.
Nations are weak critters with big purses. Maybe thats the intent. But I would counsel against any nation spending a single brass farthing upgrading or building on their ports. As recent events show yet again, your investment is just some-one elses prize. But dont worry, you can call them nasty names and allocate a really brutal icon to the worst of them. And has Mel points out.. you can declare war on them.. three days after you already lost it.

[Meliva]

What assets... mmm... additional acres for one. Nation treasury for another. And the buildings proposal will create more stuff an invader can inherit. Nice.
Nations are weak critters with big purses. Maybe thats the intent. But I would counsel against any nation spending a single brass farthing upgrading or building on their ports. As recent events show yet again, your investment is just some-one elses prize. But dont worry, you can call them nasty names and allocate a really brutal icon to the worst of them. And has Mel points out.. you can declare war on them.. three days after you already lost it.

Yeah. USA took Pania, which we had spent quite some time and money building up. It was up to 47K acres. nearly halfway to max if i'm not mistaken. And they took it while we had a nice peace treaty-again was about as useful as wet toilet paper. By the time an actual formal war was declared all the fighting was over. The whole experience REALLY spoiled the whole diplomacy aspect of this game and left a bitter taste in my mouth. The fact that treaties do next to nothing, and can just be ignored so easily is just terrible.

I have long held desires to one day start up my own nation and try holding a port, since before diplomacy was even added-I waited to gather resources and for diplomacy to be added. When it finally was I was happy, but the state it is in right now and this recent incident has just killed any desire to even try to start a new nation.

[Stan Rogers]

Diplomacy and nation security needs to be worked on before adding more things to them that can put them at further risk. But I do like all the ideas, even the port building ones so long as nation security is revised and improved.

What do we need at diplomacy front and nation security? Can you point to 1 or 2 things that come to your mind?


The necessity to incorporate the wind is what mainly shaped the rest of the ideas. I would say that "wind" holds the key for unlocking the game warfare and not only this. I also have done some research even in wind names we could use. The wind will be an ever present piece of information that you will be able to find at:
-The port screen
-Information of every fleet
-Information of every battle

It should dictate much of the gameplay, in the future.


Gameplay wise, again we cannot do much, like an upheaval. Mostly because the danger system has some specific pros that are needed by the style of game we have here.

This is why I am mostly thinking to remove the port to port rule and alongside it, we will remove the -1 danger on top of the hour rule. If we did this now, it would still work. Fleets would only gain and lose danger through warfare and cards, which is pretty much what already happens for most players. The only main difference would be that you wouldn't be able to wait the danger out. It's not a biggie though.

As for the additions, I am thinking that we could have some missions, like the Shipwreck Hunt for fleets. Here are two examples (pardon the ugly names):
Scan for Targets:
This will allow for scanning over a broad period. It will cost a bit more in time and probably it will have a penalty in danger earned. The fleet will patrol at the designated area till the suitable target (options will be provided for broad or specific targeting) is found. Once found, a battle will be done, regardless if you are around. Then the fleet will return to the set spot (configurable).

Wait for Targets:
This will allow for attacks at a specific point of the map. This will have no time overhead (as no patrol will be needed). This will mainly by useful as you will be able to recall your fleet and use it within seconds, in contrary with the Scan for targets mission, which will require 1 or 2 hours to return after you recall it (or after it engages a target). However, target selection and how the system will work, should be identical. We will mainly provide different functionality in terms of fleet availability while we can also experiment with different danger penalties for the aggressor.

From there after, there are a gazillion of ideas on how to tailor it. Here are some points of interest:
-Such attacks will not be skirmish. They will be plunders.
-Target spotting might add danger points to fleets founds.
-Target assault could be possible only after a set number of danger points has been accumulated.
-Or master's (the ship captain) experience could play a role here. Whether we speak about the fleet that attacks or defends.
-Wind would play marvelously here, ship speeds, etc. Let's not forget for how long we want to simulate chasing.

I am in huge favor of these points you have outlined for what it's worth. Fairly much all of them.

You can now see why I asked from what sections in the first portion needed completion before moving on to the 2nd part.
The game I feel is ready for this major change on how battles are chosen and foughtbut not quite so much on port expansion. I also think there is room for a major diplomacy reworking and points Danik and Mel bring up are valid observations from their perspective. I tend to agree however, how it is to be accomplished is a whole topic onto itself.

For this reason, there is going to be less enthusiasm for port expansion until there is some sort of framework that will help protect these assets. If the new division of territory also includes new ways to defend ports I think the response would be warmer however, I'll point back to my statement of more discussion on the diplomatic/port protection topic.

Essentially, just wanted to say, grid out the map and get that wind blowing. It will truly ignite sea battles like no other ! New opportunities await for a more refined pirate flagship as well.
Thanks Feniks for the plug payment

[PFH]

Tying in ranks into territorial control would be nice. Marquesses and barons would get more responsibilities and the military ranks could have more versatility:)

[Most Lee Harmless]

Here is an off-the-wall suggestion : we tend to think of pirates as buccaneers of the Caribean.. but the majority of pirates operated in much different waters.. in the Mediteranean and Asian waters and their choice of craft was the galley. The prime advantage of this vessel was that wind direction and strength didnt really matter whereas for the sailing vessel both those factors mattered a great deal.
I recall reading a description of an engagement offthe Barbary Coast between an RN ship and some pirate galleys and how they had considered themselves lucky to have got away relatively unscathed.
So.. there is an idea for a new pirate vessel which will benefit greatly from wind/weather development.