Competition between traders / new "sell to port" mechanic

[Haron]

What is the ultimate desire behind the suggestion:
I always wish to increase PvP action. Make your own rewards more dependent on other actions. Give the game more of a feeling of an actual multi-player game, rather than a single player game. This is the direction I wish the game to take.

One basic idea to achieve this:
Introduce real competition between traders. The misery of one trader should become an opportunity or benefit for others. This is in order to make traders want a reason for other traders to fail. Making the actions of other traders have consequences for your trading success (or failure) should give people more incentive to care about what others do, and this increase the PvP aspect of the game.

[Haron]

This specific suggestion:
To achieve this, I suggest replacing the “sell to port” option that exists today, with ports that actively buy from a market, similar to today’s player market. Instead of selling to port, a player has to unload his goods to his warehouse, and make his goods available for sale at a price he specifies. Every hour, the port then buys from the player’s warehouses, according to a set of rules (more about these later).

I see three possible options for this “sell to port” warehouse:

A) Simply use the existing player market, and the port buys from this.
B) Introduce a separate player-to-port market. Prices are visible to all.
C) Introduce a separate player-to-port market. Prices not visible (you only see your own selling price).

These different options will have different impacts on the game. I think a discussion about what option is better would be good. And yes, I have an opinion about what I would prefer.

Every hour, the port buys from the market. It always buys the cheapest goods first. How much it buys will depend on the following factors: The population of the port, the available goods, and the price of the available goods. The port will have certain “buying levels”. There will be one minimum level, which is an amount the port will try to buy no matter the price. If the port is unable to buy the minimum level of ANY goods, its population decreases. The port will buy more than the minimum level, but only if the price is sufficiently low. The more goods the port buys, the less it is willing to pay for more goods. The exact number of these “buying levels” with associated prices will need to be determined, probably looking at existing statistics and determining sensible numbers.

If players sell at the same price, the port will first buy from players of the port holding nation. For still equal prices, the port will buy the same percentage from every player offering goods at that price. This is probably better illustrated by some examples.

[Haron]

Examples:

Let’s say that the port of Vaasburg has a population of 1B citizens, and is controlled by Spain. Now, I do not presume to be able to give good numbers for “buying levels” or associated prices at this time, so these numbers are purely for illustration purposes. Let’s say a 1B population gives the following “buying levels”:

Minimum level: 10 000
Level 1: 20 000
Level 2: 15 000
Maximum level: Infinite

Whether or not the maximum level should be infinite or an actual number determines if it will always be possible to sell a goods or not. The price for this level should be very low, possibly even selling at a loss, and definitely no more than 1gc above average production price for a good. The number of levels can also be tuned, obviously. As well as the amounts.
Let’s set a price the port is willing to pay for, say, food, at the various levels:

Minimum level: 50 gc (max)
Level 1: 10 gc
Level 2: 8 gc
Maximim level: 6 gc

So far, so good. Now let’s make a list of players selling food at Vaasburg. I’ll just name them A, B and so on, with a (S) for players of Spanish nationality. The list is player name, crates for sale, and selling price.

A 3000 7
B 2000 7
C 5000 8
D 6000 9
E 8000 9
F 4000 11

In this case, the port will first want to buy it’s minimum level, 10 000 crates. It always buys the cheapest first. So it buys 3000 crates from A for 7 gc each, 2000 crates from B for 7 gc each, and 5000 crates from C at 8 gc each. Next, it wants to by up to 20 000 crates, but is only willing to pay a maximum of 10 gc per crate. There are 14 000 crates left for sale for under 10 gc each, so it buys those: It buys 6000 crates from D at 9 gc each, and 8000 crates from E at 9 gc each. Since the next crate would cost more than 10 gc, the port will not buy any more crates of food this hour.

Next example, cotton. Here’s what the port is willing to pay:

Minimum level: 50 gc (max)
Level 1: 10 gc
Level 2: 9 gc
Maximum level: 7 gc

Here are the players selling cotton at Vaasburg:

A 1000 10
B 2000 11
C 5000 40

And that’s it. The port first tries to buy it’s minimum level, 10 000 crates. Since there are less than 10 000 crates for sale, the port will buy all the crates available (it may seem like player C suspected this): It buys 1000 crates from player A for 10 gc each, 2000 crates from player B for 11 gc each, and 5000 crates from player C at 40 gc each. Since this is less than the minimum amount, the port population will drop (slightly – the amount needs to be tuned) this hour. Spain needs to ensure that more cotton becomes available in Vaasburg.

Next example: Rum. Here’s what the port is willing to pay:

Minimum level: 50 gc (max)
Level 1: 15 gc
Level 2: 12 gc
Maximum level: 11 gc

Here’s what is available for sale:

A 5000 12
B 5000 12
C 6000 13
D(S) 6000 14
E 10 000 14
F 6000 14
G(S) 7000 15

So, first the port will buy it’s minimum amount, 10 000 crates. It buys 5000 crates from A at 12 gc each, and 5000 crates from B at 5000 each. Next, it will buy up to 20 000 crates for maximum 15 gc each. Since there are more than 20 000 crates for sale at 15 gc or less, it will buy 20 000 crates – the cheapest first. So, it buys 6000 crates from C at 13 gc each. Since player D is from Spain, the port prefers to buy from player D rather than player E and F, even though they sell at the same price. It therefore buys 6000 crates from player D at 14 gc each. Now, it wants to buy 8000 more crates, and there are 16 000 crates left for sale at the lowest price, 14 gc. It thus will buy 50% of these crates from each player. So it buys 5000 crates from player E for 14 gc each, and 3000 crates from player F at 14 gc each. The port has now filled it’s level 1, and is now only willing to pay 12 gc for any further crates. Since no more crates are available for 12 gc or less, the port buys no more crates.

Final example: Iron. Here’s what the port is willing to pay:

Minimum level: 50 gc (max)
Level 1: 20 gc
Level 2: 16 gc
Maximum level: 14 gc

Here’s what is available for sale:
A 5000 14
B 50 000 14
C 8000 14
D 2000 15
E 3000 16

To fill both its minimum level, level 1 and level 2, the port is willing to buy up to 45 000 crates. Since more goods than this is available for the price the port is willing to pay at it’s maximum level, it will buy all the goods that is available for 14 gc each. Any port will always buy at least all the goods available for this minimum price if the maximum level is set to infinite. It seems like there is too much competition for iron sale in Vaasburg. Perhaps time to sell your iron elsewhere? So the port buys 5000 crates from player A for 14 gc each, 50 000 crates from player B at 14 gc each, and 8000 crates from player C at 14 gc each.

[Haron]

Known issues that needs discussion:

Cash flow. Should the gold you get when the port buys from your warehouse go to your purse or to your bank? Or perhaps there should be a setting so you can choose which you prefer.

Selling directly from ships: Should this still be an option? For new players, it may be hard to get a warehouse of an acceptable size, not to mention to understand the rules and implications of selling from warehouses. Then again, if this remains an option, part of the purpose behind the suggestion is lost. If it remains an option, selling directly from ships should be at very low prices, at least.

Population loss when the port can’t buy its required minimum number of each resource: How large should this drop be? It should be a certain percentage, not a fixed number, in my opinion. Should the drop happen each hour, or at reset?

Buying levels: How high should each “buying level” be for various port sizes? E.g. how much of each resource does a port of 1B citizens need to buy as a minimum, and how much is it willing to buy at lower prices (levels 1 and 2 in the examples above)?

Price levels: Similarly, how high should the prices be for the intermediate levels? At minimum level, I think the price should be 50 gc. At maximum, I think it should be no more than 1gc above production cost, maybe less. But in between?

[PFH]

+1 to this entire suggestion. I wish to see detailed calculations and mechanics planned out for this at some point.

Perhaps newbies could sell to other players instead of to ports at the beginning as they will likely get a good sale to start with. Plus this will encourage them to work with other players to fit into the jist of things.

Or perhaps make the base storage of a warehouse 10,500 cargo space for when a warehouse is built. This allows for a decent size newb to get started on learning this mechanic. Plus, it’s not that big of an expense to everyone out there whose leveled their warehouses to 500 each at least. You would be able to have 2500 of each main resources and some leftovers for GB for hideout

[Leo -⁠_-]

Good job with the details. This would make the game 25% more fun for traders.

[Axy]

suppose I sell in 5 different ports. would I need to constantly be checking how much is the port willing to buy at which price (when selling to players you don't really need to worry too much, as it is kind of just an addiction and doesn't need to be the main thing (one can do both)? Or would there be some kind of +- automatic system we could set, like a salesmen?
why do you say that this makes traders gain with someone else's losses?

btw, this sounds kinda interesting!

[Hpwizard]

The idea sounds good.

Maybe the port governor should be able to set the port prices (or at least the minimum and lower tiers). This way, if a group of pirates (or a rival nation) "blockades" a port by skirmishing as many fleets entering the port as they can, and then tries to sell their own wares at outrageous prices, the governor would need to decide how much they would give into the pirates and buy their overpriced goods, versus allowing the port to suffer from not meeting the requisite number of imports.

And maybe if someone is selling their wares at the Maximum level, then they can instantly sell the goods from their ships when they reach port. This way they would not need to have a warehouse to sell at a port, and if they need the coins immediately, they could make the sales without waiting for the top of the hour.

[Axy]

and how would buying from the port be like? (because of the plantations that sell to the ports where they produce)

[Haron]

I think it should be possible to sell the goods one can generate in a plantation in the same port as well. Mind you, since there would be a LOT of that good available, it would always be sold at the minimum price. Which should be very low for this type of goods.

That's what I think, anyway. Keeping plantations just the way they are would work too, probably. So one could still buy goods from ports which plantations sold to port.