Fishing Ship - Dogger (Medium)

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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby DezNutz » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:37 am

Hawk wrote:I don't think it should cost any gold bars to make fishing vessels. I like the original costs proposed as well, easy for newbies and cheap.

The downsides are enough, for the benefits. No cannons, no versatility, and a minimum sink chance.. geez lol. Plus you gotta invest in Fishermen.
To make Doggers so expensive makes it not worth it imo.



Fishing is an almost invisible revenue source. Outside of being lit with voodoo, the likelihood of taking a loss is very small. I can make decent money now using a couple of TG fleets fishing and have very little to no risk in doing so. Doggers increase that revenue stream by a size-able amount. Reaching that top amount shouldn't be a cheap endeavor. It also shouldn't be mind blowingly expensive, which I don't think it is.

1 fleet of 5 Doggers would make roughly 50k per day. If you make the upgrade costs based on the normal game rates, you are looking at less then 750k for 5 of them. At 50k per day that's less than 15 days to recoup expenditures. At that point you are making nothing but profit. You get lit and lose a dogger. Build a new one and 3-4 days later you recouped the loss of building the new ship and continue to make profit. It will be utter devastation for players that fish. 3-4 days to recoup replacing a single dogger in a fleet.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby Hawk » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:40 pm

As usual I see nothing wrong with profit lol

If you are worried about big players then there was already a hard cap in the original post by Captain Jack, via the academy tech. Personally I recommend a soft cap with Fisherman "officer" costs, so that fishing is accessible to newbies. With the tech maybe lowering those costs.

Profit at lower levels is nothing bad, because it helps everyone. If I can only afford 3 fishing fleets, is it good that I can get my money back and make profit in a reasonable amount of time. You are only looking at this from a huge player's point of view. And even then it is not worth it with the expenses you suggest.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby Banger » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:14 am

Hawk wrote:As usual I see nothing wrong with profit lol

If you are worried about big players then there was already a hard cap in the original post by Captain Jack, via the academy tech. Personally I recommend a soft cap with Fisherman "officer" costs, so that fishing is accessible to newbies. With the tech maybe lowering those costs.

Profit at lower levels is nothing bad, because it helps everyone. If I can only afford 3 fishing fleets, is it good that I can get my money back and make profit in a reasonable amount of time. You are only looking at this from a huge player's point of view. And even then it is not worth it with the expenses you suggest.


Just have to be careful that the earnings aren't too great that it exceeds trading as then it would draw everyone away from trading and with the need for players to generate goods now it could cripple the economy.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby William one eye » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:41 pm

perhaps some of these ideas may be useful.

I suggested variations of fishing styles to affect yield in the
Fishes concept thread

It was permit by port similar to a suggestion posted in this thread

My suggestion in fishes concept thread here.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2870&start=10&hilit=nets

From fishes thread.
Perhaps a player could choose the type of fishing.

Longline,
Trolling,
Seine netting
Drift netting


Each could come at a different cost and would be equipped by fleet or ship, each would perform differently, and possibly favor different ports or conditions.

Perhaphs the cost could be the equipment, or maybe you would need to buy a licence or permit to use the method in each port.

For example.

Lvl 1 permit allows you to troll
Lvl 2 permit allows you to troll or seine
Lvl 3 permit allows you to troll, seine, or longline,
Lvl 4 permit allows you to troll, seine, longline or drift net.

Permits must be purchased by port

maybe you even need to level up tech to use certain equipment.

SHM suggested whaling

Whaling could present some interesting game options - so long as it functioned in a technical way that required skill.

Instead of fleet to fleet combat, it might be similar but
Fleet to whale combat. Possibly not knowing how dangerous a specific whale is until you have engaged.



What if you had 3 types of vessels.

Skiff - a Light craft. . Low cost and too small to be raided subject to damage and does not require permits. These are considered private fleets and capacity is limited. I am suggesting we set the limit of how many you can run and how much they produce so that it helps new players, but is useless to established players.

Doggers, comercial fishing vessels, as described per this discussion, feel like the specialization i suggestion above,
Might tie in well.
I am suggesting you attribute and permit by fishing style.
They are port specific, Subject to damage and raiding.
Other wise like the direction this is leaning.

Whaler. Travels port to port fighing npc monster whales. Whales should be worth a substantial ammount of money.
Fleets gain danger during battles with whales. If you the kill a whale the danger is incurred. they then must deliver a captured whale to a list of npc generated port markets for profit. Each market pays a different rate and some may be more dangerous to reach than others. This is indicated when where you are on the screen that selects the delivery port. Danger in market delivery is gained at departure for that market and is added to danger generated while fighting the whale. Fleet is than at risk of being attacked at kill site or destination. Attack on a whaler is 50/ 50 fail sucess. Per attack until the whalers are taken or the danger has been reduced below visibility. If you capture a whaling fleet, you may only get the whale or you may capture the tail whaling ships also. Any remaing fleet danger conveys with the whale and adds to any you incurred attacking the whaler. You are informed of the destination port and must deliver the whale to the originally selected port to get profit from it. This applies at kill site mid journey or at market port.


For all types of fishing and whaling, yeild per port could be port seasonal, affected by weather, or ships on the seabed in that port, ect and these conditions change sometimes or possibly often.

Perhaps you could check fishing or weather condition reports
To choose the best port and type of equipment/permit to use.
Players might need to share experiences to teach what styles of fishing work best in which ports and what works best under different conditions.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby sXs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:36 pm

I disagree with the entire concept here.

If you want to fish there is nothing wrong with the in game mechanic as it sits.

1. The profit is low. The cost to start fishing is low.
2. You can cast a line from any ship Be it a hawker or MoW.
3. Taxing and requiring permits to fish? Seriously? In a pirate game?
4. 0 cannons allowed? Really? 100% sink chance? Really? Now i know why flagship is so watered down.
5. An officer requirement? Really?

Step back and look at this for a second. Simple questions. What problem does this solve? None. What issue does this address? None. How does it improve the game? It doesn't. It simply adds a feature that no one will use.

-1-1-1-1 To me it is a significant waste of limited developers time.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby Hawk » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:06 pm

I have to agree with Feniks. While I will say the ideas in themselves for fishing are great, I have to ask if it is a feature that needs elaboration in the first place. From that perspective this is a -1 for me personally.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby DezNutz » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:11 pm

Feniks wrote:I disagree with the entire concept here.

If you want to fish there is nothing wrong with the in game mechanic as it sits.

1. The profit is low. The cost to start fishing is low.
2. You can cast a line from any ship Be it a hawker or MoW.
3. Taxing and requiring permits to fish? Seriously? In a pirate game?
4. 0 cannons allowed? Really? 100% sink chance? Really? Now i know why flagship is so watered down.
5. An officer requirement? Really?

Step back and look at this for a second. Simple questions. What problem does this solve? None. What issue does this address? None. How does it improve the game? It doesn't. It simply adds a feature that no one will use.

-1-1-1-1 To me it is a significant waste of limited developers time.



1) How is the profit low?

2) Yes you can, and the fishing rate on those ships is low. Comparatively, the dogger out performs every ship in fishing. With current fishing, the best fishing fleet in the game can pull in around 30-45k per day depending on the price. The dogger outperforms that significantly. And the dogger's 50k per day estimate was based on the old pricing scale.

3) Not my suggestion.

4) You clearly don't understand how the fishing formula works.

5) The original suggestion called for an officer. It's not detrimental and at the rates that a dogger fishes, any cost would be made up in short order.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby sXs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:55 pm

It is unrealistic. So an extremely cheap ship, can outperform a ship 10X its cost. I do understand the fishing calculations. Based on new pricing fishing with 5 LMM off the coast of Baramas will net you 28,800 a day. Baramas pays the most. This is based off of me fishing for 24 hours off Baramas, so not an assumption it is an actual result.

If you want a dogger to outperform a LMM then it needs to cost more not less. It is a specialized ship for a single purpose so the cost needs to represent that specialization. If it outperforms by 20 percent then it should cost 25% more minimum. And if you do make that change then it loses the original intent of fishing in the first place.


And since when should a fishing ship get more specialization than a flagship.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby sXs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:59 pm

We can have a "Super Ship" for fishing, but not for battle? I guess next we put in a "Super Trade Ship". Maybe a "Super Immigrant Transport" ship.
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Re: [Review] Fishing Ship - Dogger

Postby sXs » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:22 pm

From OP Fishing Tweaks

Spoiler: show
https://www.piratesglory.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1616


Captain Jack wrote:Following the earlier discussion, this is our final proposal on the matter:

Step 1: COMPLETED

When: Immediate (as soon as possible)
What: Fishing formula change to: Ship Crew/5 + Ship Cargo/5 - Cannons per hour
Why: It eliminates the cheap ships fishing vessels issue.






So we eliminate the cheap ships/ fishing vessel issue. only to replace it withe cheap ship/fishing vessel.

Makes total sense to me...........
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