Guild Cost (Small)

[Dmanwuzhere]

I never peruse through a full list of guilds so I dont really see the point in a limit or fee. I guess I am missing something. Learning the game comes from playing it. On arrival to Avonmora I thought about a guild as I knew no one nor did I talk to anyone for about 2 weeks. Had I created a guild I would have soon found I was still alone or worse yet if others joined we would still be clueless. If you are actively recruiting and engaging in conversation with new arrivals newb guilds would probably be extinct anyway.

Many guilds, especially training guilds DO actively try to recruit new arrivals. But not all of them accept the invitation. And sometimes you get a player who thinks they can figure out the game on their own, or simply do not like being told what to do. A cost to create a guild would more or less force new players to either join an existing guild and learn from them, or be guildless until they can afford the fee.

One of the biggest problems is when a newb guild is created, and starts recruiting other newbs. This pretty much always ends in the whole guild eventually going dead due to the fact that none of them know the game well enough to succeed, and lacking any resources to protect eachother. And this is one of the most damaging things to happen. A single newb running a guild is already bad, but when they start dragging other newbs down with them its even worse.

While I agree with your point as far as it being a bad idea I am a firm believer in trial by error. I stunted my own growth for 2 weeks and tried google searches on the game and found some tips. Obviously those tips and other search results were not much help. I had 2 invites but I am a loner most of the time, and chose to ignore them. It is kind of a natural selection thing in my mind. I finally broke down and joined helm as I always try to succeed and I realized by myself was not an option so I survived. Had I chose otherwise I am sure I would have already been gone. I guess my point is just to say if you put your loner and rebellious spirit before your success the guild you create will be your grave and I have no problem looking at tombstones to remind me of that.

[Meliva]

While I agree with your point as far as it being a bad idea I am a firm believer in trial by error. I stunted my own growth for 2 weeks and tried google searches on the game and found some tips. Obviously those tips and other search results were not much help. I had 2 invites but I am a loner most of the time, and chose to ignore them. It is kind of a natural selection thing in my mind. I finally broke down and joined helm as I always try to succeed and I realized by myself was not an option so I survived. Had I chose otherwise I am sure I would have already been gone. I guess my point is just to say if you put your loner and rebellious spirit before your success the guild you create will be your grave and I have no problem looking at tombstones to remind me of that.

I don't mind too much when someone goes on their own and tries to be a lone wolf, like you said they either learn to survive over time, or give in and join a guild to learn, and once you have gotten some experience, resources and knowledge you can try to be a lone wolf again. Hell Tom Lowe-a very experienced player was in his own nation and guild for a LONG time doing just fine. But like I stated before, it is extremely bad for a newb to create their own guild and end up inviting other newbs. Because the vast majority of experienced players would not want to join a guild with a newb as the guild leader, and with no one with experience in a guild, the guild will most likely die rather quick, due to lack of resources, and lack of knowledge. And the newb leader will essentially be dragging other newbs, who perhaps with the right mentoring and support could grow to become a great player, down with them. Because many newbs, when given invites will often choose the first offer, or not check the guilds out before joining. I truly believe if we make creating a guild have a cost- it would help improve the amount of players who stick around.

[Donald Trump]

I agree. I find the most destructive newbies to the community are the ones that create their own guilds and draw newbies down with them. They usually end up quitting in a week; along with the newbies in their guild. Regardless of the newbie and how confident they are; I see it as a 98% chance. Almost certain. I guess that occurs due to the complexity of the game and how tough it is for newbies.

[Dmanwuzhere]

+1 for your earnest beliefs, honestly a million bucks even with howkers isn't that difficult and loans are in abundance even for newbs.

[Meliva]

+1 for your earnest beliefs, honestly a million bucks even with howkers isn't that difficult and loans are in abundance even for newbs.

Well the cost is up for debate. It might be better to make it a bit higher, or have multiple requirements.
Now that I think of it, perhaps a better option would be a sort of guild license, Lets say player X decides he wants to make a new guild- he pays 10M gold and he gets his license. If he ever leaves his guild, or disbands it, he will still have his license and can create a new guild if he wants. That way if you try to run a guild for a time, but fail and rejoin another you wont have to repay to make a new guild if you wish to try again. This higher cost would also make it more difficult for a newb to start their own guild. Again this is up for debate. Regardless something should be done, And I would love to hear if any other players have any suggestions they can think of.

And perhaps just to prevent anyone from spamming guilds, once you create a guild you can not make a new one for a period of time, Again- everything is debatable here, so everyone feel free to suggest any ideas you have or alterations you can think of.

[Maha]

the first guild i joined was [bts] run by Mr.X and i still hold the invite against him!
i think that he was the last man standing in that guild, but maybe he started it. who knows, he never responded to anything i wrote to him.
i am not a vengeful guy, but when i got the means i emptied his fleets. for a while he was absent, but recently i checked in on him and saw he joined another guild and had some fleets running. not enough to destroy them again yet.

i say this to show the beef i have with these kind of players/guilds.
thats why i proposed a fame level that has to be reached once. (like 2 million fame) not so easy to get, but with work and knowledge of the game it is doable. to get that level of fame a player has shown to understand the basics of the game imo.

requiring that a guildleadership requires an one time 2 mil fame or more, makes that with the exit of a guildleader a guild can become leaderless and unable to recruit. this would protect the newbies in the guild. they have the choice to gain expierance and continue their guild or to abandon the sinking guild.

[Meliva]

I rather dislike bumping my own threads, but I feel that this discussion should be continued.

I have thought a bit more on this issue, and I shall re-propose this topic with 4 new and updated suggestions.

1.-Guild Creation Cost
The first suggestion is that to create a new guild, one must pay a fee to create it. This fee should be high enough to discourage new users from creating guilds, but low enough a experienced player will be able to afford it without any trouble. A limit on gold would be simplest but due to loans a new player can foot the bill fast. To counter that perhaps a restriction that one must be debt free to create the guild aswell as the gold fee. Credits could also be used for the cost(though I am against it). The fee is debatable and could even be determined based on how long the player has played. Ex. a newbie pays a high fee, but a player as old as BlackSparrow pays next to nothing.
2.-Guild License
This idea I like quite a bit, Instead of having to pay a fee everytime you create a guild, just pay a single fee one time and you can create a guild whenever you want. This fee should be quite a bit higher then previous suggestion, perhaps 10X more expensive. It can be displayed as an achievement like when a player builds their hideout, And any guild leaders at the time this is implemented will be given a license for free(but they must claim it first to prevent inactive guild leaders from getting them).
3. Guild restrictions.
Instead of a cost to make a guild, we implement restrictions. For example you must have a certain amount of time players/turns spent/fame in order to create a guild. This suggestion I Rather like, but not as much as the previous 2.
4.-Combination of 2 or 3 of the previous ones.
While I like each of these suggestions individually, I believe combining them would be the most effective solution. I think it would more or less prevent any newbie guilds from forming at all, which in my opinion is a good thing. What elements of the 3 suggestions that are used, is again up for debate, but I believe something should be done.

I will be adding a poll to this thread that I humbly ask my fellow players to vote on to see which direction we should go from here. Everyone please feel free to speak up if you have an idea or a complaint.

[Maha]

i bump my +1

[Most Lee Harmless]

Rubbish guilds run by rubbish guild-masters wont be cured by adding a cost to their creation : the cure lies in the radical re-education of a significant part of humanity to remove the belief that ignorance is no bar to excellence, indeed, that it is a necessary part of ones armoury when dealing with complicated matters, like life.
I've have lost track of the number of times I have offered advice, with reasons for it, to a newb and lo, they know so much better and carry on to the inevitable disastrous conclusion of their folly. Mind, that applies to a few veterans as well, so, what do I know.

[Meliva]

Rubbish guilds run by rubbish guild-masters wont be cured by adding a cost to their creation : the cure lies in the radical re-education of a significant part of humanity to remove the belief that ignorance is no bar to excellence, indeed, that it is a necessary part of ones armoury when dealing with complicated matters, like life.
I've have lost track of the number of times I have offered advice, with reasons for it, to a newb and lo, they know so much better and carry on to the inevitable disastrous conclusion of their folly. Mind, that applies to a few veterans as well, so, what do I know.

You make a fair point Danik, some individuals even when offered good advice and knowledge will not accept it, and some even go so far as to believe they know better then those with more experience and knowledge. And it is precisely those latter individuals who are the last ones we need running guilds and recruiting new players. I will concede that even with this cost it will not eradicate rubbish guilds, such a thing is simply impossible. But would you not agree with me Danik, that at least reducing the number of rubbish guilds, is better then nothing? The individuals who refuse advice and think they know better are more or less lost- we can not help someone or train someone who refuses our help, so let those individuals sink or swim. But if those same individuals try to recruit other new players- players who are willing to learn, and are looking for guidance, who could become great players with the proper training and mentorship, then those players are robbing the potential of these recruits. and those recruits are arguably the future of this game.