Port Blockades (Large)

[Sir Henry Morgan]

Aye, defender wins, with fleets getting 18 DR for the effort... and damage.

That has me excited - not.

All crew and officers take shore leave be a wiser strategy. Then when it be over, take to the seas for vengeance, if even that be worth the effort.

A merchant doesn't fight for profit; he wants justice. As there be no gallows feature, I'd be more inclined to set me Widow Makers to sea if I knew that if we be victorious, 50% to 75% of the ships that we defenders' sunk (99% damage) be destroyed beyond use (lost 50% to 75% of their attribute points).

That would be worth the risk of me warships, and perhaps those of other merchants as well. It would definitely please the shipbuilders.....

[Stan Rogers]

I see blockade not as a way to make gold but rather, especially when shipping and manufacturing goods requires raw materials from rival ports, it be a tool to deny shipping to rival nations.
For instance, Spain imposes a blockade to deny service of lumber in prote to Bonaire forcing tediously long trade routes to alternate ports for wood.
More of a tool to economically weaken rival nations who you may not want access to your hard earned, self generated, raw materials or is blockade only to be used on rival nations ?

What could become even more interesting is when monopolies start to form and one nation controls all of a certain raw material. Backroom deals with rulers and proposals to trade specific ports for others all in an effort to gain a monopoly somewhere. Secondary sellers of goods for stupid profits to nations who need cotton but cannot get into a cotton port so must purchase from a re-seller.
This is where I envvisioned blockades becoming an important part of the game as like SHM and Danik says, why bother worrying about a blockade, just move on.

[Sebena]

I see blockade not as a way to make gold but rather, especially when shipping and manufacturing goods requires raw materials from rival ports, it be a tool to deny shipping to rival nations.
For instance, Spain imposes a blockade to deny service of lumber in prote to Bonaire forcing tediously long trade routes to alternate ports for wood.
More of a tool to economically weaken rival nations who you may not want access to your hard earned, self generated, raw materials or is blockade only to be used on rival nations ?

Screw it we will bring it from aiora


Now on seriouse note it can be used that way but only later when actually manufacturing from players come into the play. Right now they will be used as a source of money making defenders not really interested in defending... We never said that this has to be set in stone but if we want this to be game changer then we need some satisfaction to defendrs if they beat it and also make some punishment for attackers because they failed in their task. Like I said in this time failing in something meant death

[Vane]

If the risk on any side is to lose their ships for failing in defending or attacking no blockades would occur.. that is far to extreme.

Haron is on point with making sure the income generated by trade is high enough the port controlling nation does not wish to lose it. But I also think and envision blockaded being a tool to use in potential takeovers of ports. Tieing in naval combat with port control if you will. A successful blockade should also remove a percentage of overall influence from the ports nation. If the defense is successful the defends gain a boost to influence in their port for protecting their residents.

Tie influence into winning and losing and motive becomes legitimate. Tie population in and it becomes more so. Every day a blockade is in effect, the population is reduced slightly due to economic hardship.

Make port related voodoo restricted when the target port is blockaded to further the need to defend.

[Captain Jack]

There are multiple indirect gains out of the proposed format. Some of them are gold coin based. But not all gains are gold related. I understand that your piratey (deep-down) heart desires more shiny coins and I can only blame this.

We also need to put on the table the preliminary part of the feature. It is too early to add anything too significant on the table. Actually, controlling the port traffic on a fee is quite big already for my piece of cake. If I also include in the deal the dynamic type of the whole process, then we should not even care about any rewards. It's a free market again and the two sides will dictate what is worth of it every time.

If we ever need to add more things on the table, there is nothing easier. Here are a couple of ideas without even pushing my own creativity:
-Add extra danger penalty to whoever does not pay the toll.
-Add extra influence penalties (to winner and loser)
-Add further honor/hostility penalties (you failed to defend your port eh? The country officials are not at all happy... )
-Add control to exports too (with the proposed system, goldsmiths on port can work....)
-Add toll fee to every attack done at the port

But again, it's too early to make this feature this significant. There is plenty of time later. As someone else noted, there are features like Plantation that will also play a role. More are coming (Port Buildings anyone?). If we rush so early on, there will be greater trouble later - does anyone remember ( our perhaps single) the debuff - commonly called wimping - on fishing? Many were disheartened over this - many might still be while some others might still be waiting for the special ship (which is a future possibility after all). Although the fishing feature is still important and useful, despite the wimping. However, it left a bad taste. In the contrary, Skirmish started with low expectations. Building it stone by stone (more stones are surely needed) we have improved it in the right time and way, succeeding our "schemmy" plans to manipulate the game in the way we believe it will be more enjoyable (a lot more fleets with danger than before in this case).

Similarly, there are "schemmy" plans here. For instance, getting some bigger ships out. Sooner or later, this will be done. Or persuading the big players to raise multiple big war fleets AND enter the current fight on current disadvantageous (for them) game factors. I think the first part is almost done. Now we mostly need to push them to use them. Such players do not really care for gold. They more care for fame (I find this healthy btw) so I think that current Blockade plan will work anyway.

For the record, these "schemmy" plans are not that schemmy to those that constantly follow my posts in the forums. For example Shadowood who does, is well aware of them. As everyone who just read this post, is now also aware. Well done! I am talking to you!

[Shadowood]

CJ just called me out for stalking him.

[Most Lee Harmless]

We cant comment or discuss what has not been proposed, or what might happen at some point in the future, or not. All we can work from is what has been presented, here and now and how it will work when implemented as it is, not what it might become.

I see it this way : the attacker risks : victory brings gain, defeat brings loss. The defend risk the cost of defence : victory brings no recompense, just the cost : defeat brings the cost plus more loss. As for what become of it, in future, well, more gain for the attacker and more loss for the defender, regardless of victory or defeat, seems to be the desire.

Adding to the defenders cost of loss wont encourage them to fight. It will encourage tactics to minimise loss. Adding to the attackers gains wont encourage defenders either. Again, it will only encourage tactics to minimise loss. Forcing defence thru onerous loss conditions in the event of defeat, whilst still offering no gains in victory beyond maintaining the status quo wont encourage them, all they get is the cost of defence or defeat : its a lose-lose scenario and only a bloody fool will sign up for that.

The only wise option in defence is to minimise the consequent unavoidable loss of fighting at all : I dont see how that will encourage the all-out, no-holds barred mega fleet confrontations we all want to see and be part of. So, under current conditions, any blockade will just be a walk-over for the attacker and some easy pickings of feckless traders who havent stopped their fleets : well, how is that going to be so much better than skirmishing newbs, or vanilla plunders off defenceless trade fleets? Cheap thrills for the attackers, thats the gain for the game? Well, great for the waggers but frigging dull for the rest of us.

I want to see this proposal succeed : but to do so, to bring about the big ship confrontations we desire, then there has to be meat on the bone for both sides : risk and reward on both sides : not a one-sided forced encounter with the chance of profit for one, but nowt but cost for the other, whatever the outcome.

[Shadowood]

I agree that the defenders should receive/recover something if the defense is successful.

- Honor Points from the controlling nation of the port
- Influence gained in port of successful defense. This would be either a flat formula based off dmg dealt. Or a conversion of the amount of gold coins plundered by attackers converted to Influence (standard conversion rate applies)
- Fame
- If you have a wife/girlfriend in that port who is walking on clouds, you recieve extra presents

You could do all of the above, a combo or just 1. Of course there could be other ideas too.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I think it both fair and historically accurate that the failed attackers lose their ships to the defenders, and vice versa : the cost of defeat must be costly to both sides.

How we manage that, either as the sale of 'sunk' ships to shipwright then sharing out the prize money, or by some other sharing mechanic is debatable. But the fact of the loss should not be.

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

I agree that the defenders should receive/recover something if the defense is successful.

- Honor Points from the controlling nation of the port
- Influence gained in port of successful defense. This would be either a flat formula based off dmg dealt. Or a conversion of the amount of gold coins plundered by attackers converted to Influence (standard conversion rate applies)
- Fame
- If you have a wife/girlfriend in that port who is walking on clouds, you recieve extra presents

You could do all of the above, a combo or just 1. Of course there could be other ideas too.

+1