Fishing Ship - Dogger (Medium)

[sXs]

Listen...... I know I haven't been here as long as a lot of captains, 2-1/2 years. I was lucky. I learned about the history of the game from Mugiwara and Sir Henry. I was told that to understand why some things were the way they were, I should read through the forums. When I had questions about how piracy worked, I joined up with one of the most notorious of all, Ad. Nelson/ Avery/ Roberts. He told me the history of Jack Boot when I pulled up one of his SOTLs wreck hunting. He told me the history of his exploits with Valor. Vane taught me to tread lightly with voodoo when I cast on him. Shadow and Will have shown me the art and nuances of raiding for profit.

My point is this. I have seen upgrades for bankers, upgrades for traders, upgraded ship traits for all, and plantations. I have seen the frustration of pirates boil over at the lack of any meaningful changes that would benefit them.(other than a small change to skirmish which again applies to all.) I agree 100% with Vane when he says being a true pirate should be hard. In fact, it should be the hardest path to undertake in the game.

The pirate flagship suggestions outdates me by years. It was once approved as a pirate only benefit, only to be bastardized later. into a "for all" perk.

My question is this. Why does every other path in the game get priority over piracy? The game is slanted against pirates. Severely slanted against the black flag.

I know CJ hates this when it is said, but "Pirates Glory" is not the true nature of this game. It is more like those sim games now or one of the many "Tycoon" games.

Now we come back to an "approved" suggestion for fishing that some have admitted is simply an add-on that doesn't fix an issue, but simply makes it easier for someone, other than a pirate, to make more coin. Why? It isn't needed. It was also admitted that maybe 7-12% of fleets sailing are fishing. As Dez has suggested, a lot of those may be simply to supply plantations with food.

This suggestion is just another "set and forget" upgrade that discourages activity. Why sign in daily or several times a day. Simply set your new "Dogger" fleets out to fish without any real threat of them being attacked because of all the reasons Vane stated above. Sign in once every 3-5 days and bank your profits and sign back out.

Is this really what we want to promote in this game?

[Most Lee Harmless]

The issue with the Dogger, for me, is that the intial fishing development WAS the Dogger. What got implemented was a more general one which allowed any ship to fish.. with the notion the Dogger would be introduced later. Then fishing got nerfed because 60 million howker fleets could make far too much under the old metrics and the Dogger got lost in the mix.
My argument for the Dogger is the same one from when fishing was first discussed : a ship that fishes and nothing else. And the other ship types fight, trade and do not fish.
Btw.. I dont mind a special ship for pirates. I saw traits as a way to differentiate ships : not all pirates sail or prefer the same ship type. So having special black flag only traits seemed a good way to allow pirates to choose their preferred ship and make it better for their needs as each sees them. If I was a pirate I know what ship I would want to use.. I know other pirates choose differently.

So.... whats so bad about more choice for pirates.. special traits that enable pirates to pirate better.. or do we really need more trophy ships that no-one will risk being outside their marina? Or more players like me who dont even bother to have one because it would so rarely get used? What would be the use in that ship? But an over-gunned unsinkable frigate.. with traits that add plunder... or reduce danger gain.. or lose danger quicker.. well the pirate in my soul knows which I would choose. CJ is already amenable to having a choice of porate only traits : why not engage instead of decrying all.
And if you think the choice of a frigate is a poor one.. look in your own guilds battle reports and see what my frigates have done to some of your members fleets.. and think what it could do with extra pirate only traits.. who needs a mow or the pirate version of it?

[sXs]

Danik I see your point, but my question still remains. Do we want another set and forget feature thats only purpose is to make coin without any thought or strategy.

That is not how this game is advertised and that is what dogger would make fishing. As proposed they are cheap and very little threat to being raided. Virtually none because they hold no value whatsoever. They are just coin generating mechanisms with no downside.... or virtually none.

[Magnus the red]

Danik I see your point, but my question still remains. Do we want another set and forget feature thats only purpose is to make coin without any thought or strategy.

That is not how this game is advertised and that is what dogger would make fishing. As proposed they are cheap and very little threat to being raided. Virtually none because they hold no value whatsoever. They are just coin generating mechanisms with no downside.... or virtually none.

+1

[Most Lee Harmless]

I want fishing confined to a specific vessel.. built for that task alone and pretty useless for anything else. As a fishing vessel usually is. The fleets can still be lit.. still be plundered and still be captured. Value?... whats the most common capture then? LMM of low level.. or howker same.

My proposal, somewhat lost in subsequent discussion, made levelling up the Dogger key to making it productive.. and therefore more valuable to capture.. confining it to inland waters meant no skipping from port to port for the best price. All this would actually reduce fishing as a common income stream and make it a career choice. No more throwing spare fleets into it until you need them elsewhere.

The proposal to add damage on each port entry was more than just whimsey.. it opened another line of attack.. worms... which left unattended would cripple the fleets in a way they dont do now. Even at 1% current fleets will go and fish and take no more time about it or bring back less because of it. And more.. no more 'drop and forget'.. keeping the fleet repaired is both a cost in coin and time.

Aye.. its a balance between profit and risk of loss. Get that right and you can make coin but thats the same for pirates : for both if you get it wrong its losses all round.

[Vane]

The issue with the Dogger, for me, is that the intial fishing development WAS the Dogger. What got implemented was a more general one which allowed any ship to fish.. with the notion the Dogger would be introduced later.

Hmmm sounds just like the "Pirates" Flagship..... yet when I pointed it out it got shot down. So either this gets shot down or the flagship gets back on track, now that sounds fair to me.

[Most Lee Harmless]

What IS the flagship? Thats what doesnt get mentioned : are all pirates even agreed on that? Is it a frigate? A SotL? A MoW? Some combination of all three? A totally new ship type altogether? How big? How many crew? How many guns? How many hit points ? How fast?

I proposed the Dogger to do what it said on the tin : fish.
I gave numbers and reasons.

When I see the same for the pirate flagship I can say yeah or nay... but right now all I hear is 'Where is it?' And precious little of what 'it' actually is.

[sXs]

The proposal to add damage on each port entry was more than just whimsey.. it opened another line of attack.. worms... which left unattended would cripple the fleets in a way they dont do now. Even at 1% current fleets will go and fish and take no more time about it or bring back less because of it. And more.. no more 'drop and forget'.. keeping the fleet repaired is both a cost in coin and time.
.

brig and Royal Fleet Auxiliary solves this issue without any effort. Still only need to sign in every 72 hours.

Card sells on the market for 0.13 credits

[Most Lee Harmless]

And running brigs and keeping RFA cast costs nothing..

I did mention that this would slso encourage running brig fleets and casting RFA.. two under-used aspects of the game. But dont make out they are insurmountable.. then can be cleaned out like any other cast.

Maybe more arguments for a practical pirate flagship, or equivalent, and less arguing against anything that isnt a pirate flagship might bring more progress.

But enough of it. Having the Dogger or not wont mess with my gameplay. And neither will the non-appearance of any kind of flagship.. pirate or otherwise.
So stamp your feet over that one. I'm done.

[Vane]

What IS the flagship? Thats what doesnt get mentioned : are all pirates even agreed on that? Is it a frigate? A SotL? A MoW? Some combination of all three? A totally new ship type altogether? How big? How many crew? How many guns? How many hit points ? How fast?

I proposed the Dogger to do what it said on the tin : fish.
I gave numbers and reasons.

When I see the same for the pirate flagship I can say yeah or nay... but right now all I hear is 'Where is it?' And precious little of what 'it' actually is.

"IT" was to be a ship named by the Pirate controlling it. One that would have special traits and characteristics once named to aid in the pirates raiding as a tool much like plantations, port taxes, banks and even your proposed dogger is to merchants... It was all clearly defined until the it became as I recall calling it "Bastardized and watered down" just like your loved fishing ship and niche has been...

You still have no valid argument until the other side actually gains something..