Gem Stones

[Grimrock Litless]

Not with a ship in every port, no. Enter ship in fleet, go hunting. In each port, every 5th encounter will be a pirate hunter, then remove ship from fleet. So you can spend 10 turns in every port (on average) before having to wait for the hunters to disappear. That's 210 turns spent for all ports total. So you only have turns enough to do this once a day anyway. Doesn't take much time at all. Much less than writing forum posts

Yes, that is very interesting of what you are saying, but i still like the idea of 3 ways to find gem, so that its not too imbalanced that only a few roles can get the gems without using credits, which is unfair, but i am sure someone some where would like that everyone spend money on credits *cough*.

[Haron]

OK, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about that, then

Still, I'll explain my point of view:

I think plundering treasure fleets to find gems is a good idea, because it only requires turns, and cannot be "sped up" by throwing gold at it (although you can spend credits to get more turns). If another way is also used, like the NPC treasure hunt, I think they should both share that quality, yet they have to be different in some aspect. Making one way give you danger and another NOT give you danger, but require more turns on average, seems like a good way to achieve this.

Including a "gem mine" in the hideout is NOT, I think, a good idea. Then one can just "throw money" at the gems, to be able to acquire them faster than others. Keep in mind that richer players will STILL get more gems than poorer players, since they can buy gems on the market for credits (and credits can be bought with gold). This is as it should be.

Now, to your point that "only a few roles can find gems without using credits". First, I would think it was actually a GOOD thing if certain "roles", as you call it, found it simpler to find gems than others. As I see it, when you have several resources (like gold and gems), then one "role" should find it simpler to find one resource (traders may acquire more gold daily than other "roles"), while other "roles" should find it easier to find other resources. Alas, even with the proposed idea, this actually is NOT the case. As I have already pointed out, hunting down treasure fleets is equally simple for all roles, if you know how to do it. Secondly, finding gems this way will actually be MORE EXPENSIVE for "pirates" than "traders" for the following, simple reason: Finding gems costs turns. Traders hardly use turns trading, so they can spend almost all their turns looking for gems. Pirates, on the other hand, spend turns on plunder and skirmish, meaning that they have fewer turns left to look for gems. Put another way: To traders, turns have less value than they do to pirates, so by exchanging the same number of turns for gems, traders "pay less value" for each gem. This will become even more true with the academy "Piracy" and "Skirmish tactics" technologies.

Lastly, but by far most importantly: I wish there were more people involved in these types of discussions...

[Grimrock Litless]

OK, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about that, then

Still, I'll explain my point of view:

I think plundering treasure fleets to find gems is a good idea, because it only requires turns, and cannot be "sped up" by throwing gold at it (although you can spend credits to get more turns). If another way is also used, like the NPC treasure hunt, I think they should both share that quality, yet they have to be different in some aspect. Making one way give you danger and another NOT give you danger, but require more turns on average, seems like a good way to achieve this.

Including a "gem mine" in the hideout is NOT, I think, a good idea. Then one can just "throw money" at the gems, to be able to acquire them faster than others. Keep in mind that richer players will STILL get more gems than poorer players, since they can buy gems on the market for credits (and credits can be bought with gold). This is as it should be.

Now, to your point that "only a few roles can find gems without using credits". First, I would think it was actually a GOOD thing if certain "roles", as you call it, found it simpler to find gems than others. As I see it, when you have several resources (like gold and gems), then one "role" should find it simpler to find one resource (traders may acquire more gold daily than other "roles"), while other "roles" should find it easier to find other resources. Alas, even with the proposed idea, this actually is NOT the case. As I have already pointed out, hunting down treasure fleets is equally simple for all roles, if you know how to do it. Secondly, finding gems this way will actually be MORE EXPENSIVE for "pirates" than "traders" for the following, simple reason: Finding gems costs turns. Traders hardly use turns trading, so they can spend almost all their turns looking for gems. Pirates, on the other hand, spend turns on plunder and skirmish, meaning that they have fewer turns left to look for gems. Put another way: To traders, turns have less value than they do to pirates, so by exchanging the same number of turns for gems, traders "pay less value" for each gem. This will become even more true with the academy "Piracy" and "Skirmish tactics" technologies.

Lastly, but by far most importantly: I wish there were more people involved in these types of discussions...

Traders uses turns to build ships, and we can't use all our turns to go and look for gems. We need extra turns in time when someone attacks you out of the blue, a few ideas is to have, 100% chance to get gem but high cost, which i think gem mine is whats best, and one is low chance but low cost. Like treasure hunts or npc treasure fleets.

Also, mining for gems will take time, lets say, 1 days to get one gem on the gem mine with a high cost. And that you say that 1 day a person on all 21 ports could get a gem. And treasure hunts gem chance is kind of like : you have extra turns but want to make a meaning out of it.

People that i would like to hear what they say on this is all the big traders, so far a lot of you opinions seems to be in favor of people with less ships, and when cast pacifism even a pirate hunter can be defeated with a few sotl. And because traders have a lot of ships their tax is higher, and pirates is lower, so they don't really need to attack someone everyday just so they can make a living.

PS : The person i also want to hear opinion on this is Cpt. Jack, they will be the ones working on this, I think.

[Haron]

First: Building ships is INVESTING turns, not spending them. Huge difference. Also, trading ships are extremely cheap on the market.

Second: You can easily spend all the turns you gain in a day (144) and not reach 0 turns. Spend 72 when you start your day and 72 in the evening, for example. You'll still have a large turn reserve in case of an emergency.

Third: I never said a person could get 1 gem pr day with my strategy. I said that by using such a strategy, you don't waste turns attacking pirate hunters or other NPCs. It would still cost you on average around 700 turns, that is, 5 days worth of turns if you don't spend turns on anything else. And you don't really need 1 ship in every port either, if you log in more than once a day.

As for your gem mine, I already explained why I strongly oppose such an idea. That's a point where we clearly disagree. No shortcuts. Find them the "hard way" or buy them on the market, I say.

[Haron]

Of cource Captain Jack is in charge, as always, but I agree with you, more opinions from others would be very welcome.

[Grimrock Litless]

First: Building ships is INVESTING turns, not spending them. Huge difference. Also, trading ships are extremely cheap on the market.

Second: You can easily spend all the turns you gain in a day (144) and not reach 0 turns. Spend 72 when you start your day and 72 in the evening, for example. You'll still have a large turn reserve in case of an emergency.

Third: I never said a person could get 1 gem pr day with my strategy. I said that by using such a strategy, you don't waste turns attacking pirate hunters or other NPCs. It would still cost you on average around 700 turns, that is, 5 days worth of turns if you don't spend turns on anything else. And you don't really need 1 ship in every port either, if you log in more than once a day.

As for your gem mine, I already explained why I strongly oppose such an idea. That's a point where we clearly disagree. No shortcuts. Find them the "hard way" or buy them on the market, I say.

The hard way for gem mine is their high cost. I don't think you get, do you have a hideout?

Btw, what do you mean by 700 turns?

[Haron]

Yes, I have a hideout with several buildings. And my point was that I do NOT want people to be able to use lots of gold to get an easier way to get gems. I say the only way to use gold to get gems, should be to buy credits with gold, then gems with credit. Not buy a "I'm rich so I can get 5 times as many gems as you pr day" building.

OK, the math bethind the 700 turns: Using my way, I only ever plunder treasure fleets, not any other NPC fleets. Each patrol costs 2 turns, and has a 3% chance to get you a treasure fleet. That means on average 200 turns spent to find 3 treasure fleets. That's an average of 667 turns to find 10 treasure fleets, which, with a 10% chance to find a gem in a treasure fleet, is the average cost of a gem. Plus the 20 turn needed to plunder those 10 treasure fleets, for a total of 687 turns pr gem. I rounded it up to 700 for convenience.

[Grimrock Litless]

So i went to test out what you said, and a fleet with 2 sotl can easily beat a pirate hunter with pacifism. Even when one have a lot of ships.
and in that 5 mins i used 70 turns and found 2 treasure fleet.

Another 30 more turns used, 2 more treasure fleet found.

For the whole day, i found about 6 treasure fleet and 10 pirate hunters, this means i could have gotten a few gems.

[Grimrock Litless]

Bump

[Stan Rogers]

Personally, I think mining should be something that be implemented as ports become more self sufficient with mines, farms (cotton, food) etc. It also makes gems only available to the advanced players.
What gems are used for? Witch Hut ? Only available to advanced players if it is built in Academy.

Pirate Hunters and Treasure Fleets but not every time does the defeated NPC carry gems is my vote.
As it is now, the repair cost of defeating a Pirate hunter is insanely more than the win. Especially if it takes a number of ships in your fleet to defeat the Pirate 'hunter fleet. Of course I am talking with no voodoo cast to assist in winning

Perhaps 5%-25% of treasure fleets carry Gems and 25-50% of Pirate hunters the same?