Plunder Formula tweak discussion

[not a pirate]

Your support for the new sink chances was, "as more merchants have more ships, this feels like a necessary advancement."

Well, if you have more ships and more protections, why would a bonus not be given to the other side? Merchants would get: better defense, less ships lost/depending on how many fleets they have, maybe less gold lost. And without this suggestion, what would pirates get? A harder time sinking ships and getting gold? Yep, seems fair, huh?

I'm not going to continue to argue you with as I believe I have made my argument for it clear. Both sides can benefit from all the recent proposals, and it just wouldn't be "fair", although it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be fair-- it would be nice though--, to implement even more benefits to merchant-scum without tossing a pirate a bone!

[Donald Trump]

The lower sink chances helps pirates as well. Gather a ton of danger, it is harder for a merchant to cast disfavor while you are asleep and go plunder crazy on your war fleet.



Pirates have a TON of bonuses. The main one being is that it is extremely costly for a merchant to fight back.

[not a pirate]

(I couldn't resist replying to this one.)

"The lower sink chances helps pirates as well." -- Good, so we established it helps both sides. Thanks.

"It is harder for a merchant to cast disfavor while you are asleep and go plunder crazy on your war fleet." -- It isn't harder to cast voodoo, it is harder to actually get a reward besides gold out of it though. Which is the same as when a merchant gets lit up, they won't be "defleeted" like you argued, as the chances are lowered. Once again, thanks for agreeing with me.

"...it is extremely costly for a merchant to fight back." It is all good, they don't lose as much gold so they can afford the cost if they want to attack back. Now I have to hit the hay.

[Meliva]

The lower sink chances helps pirates as well. Gather a ton of danger, it is harder for a merchant to cast disfavor while you are asleep and go plunder crazy on your war fleet.



Pirates have a TON of bonuses. The main one being is that it is extremely costly for a merchant to fight back.

chin, you do realize most pirates have far fewer ships then most traders, a lot of them run with less then 50 ships.

[Donald Trump]

I am very aware of that. But pirates gather insane amounts of danger on their war fleets. Like 400-500 danger. Cast disfavor and that 10% sink chance will be put to the test for pirates. If the tail on the pirate's war fleet isn't sunk, the level will probably be so low a leviathan will be cast, then follows the ambushes on the goodies inside.

Since pirates don't carry much gold on them, say the next ship is a frigate, sweet, 4 ambushes the pirate will be cleared.

[Meliva]

I am very aware of that. But pirates gather insane amounts of danger on their war fleets. Like 400-500 danger. Cast disfavor and that 10% sink chance will be put to the test for pirates. If the tail on the pirate's war fleet isn't sunk, the level will probably be so low a leviathan will be cast, then follows the ambushes on the goodies inside.

Since pirates don't carry much gold on them, say the next ship is a frigate, sweet, 4 ambushes the pirate will be cleared.

that isn't very dangerous for them
400-500 danger= 22-27 attacks on them, with a 10% sink chance its rather unlikely their tail would be destroyed. and even if they lost their whole fleet, odds are they gained more then they lost.

[Donald Trump]

Meliva, remember the disfavor factors in lol.


500/9 = 55 attacks.

As well, raids are only profitable if fleets start dropping. No one pays 2.1mil in FoJs, and who knows how many ambushes to just get the gc. In exchange of the raid, you waste a ton of turns, and put a ton of danger on your war fleet.

[Meliva]

and even at 55 attacks, at 10% chance, its still unlikely the tail would sink. not to mention they would still gain more then they lost.
to even get to 500 danger, you need to attack 83 times, and you would only suffer 55 attacks in retaliation if your counting disfavor. the sink rate being lowered will only help pirates slightly. it will be the merchants who truly benefit from the change. and the gold plunder change is only a 2% increase, do you REALLY think that will devastate merchants. the changes being made are balanced and a good idea in my opinion.

[Donald Trump]

Doesn't matter how many times who gets to attack who. If the merchant's fleets don't start dropping during the raid, the pirate has LOST out on gc and voodoo. I can attack a merchant with 10mil on them 100 times, if their SoTLs don't start dropping, I wasted a ton of voodoo, and have to face the retaliation while I gained nothing in return. The turn input pirates put in to plunder someone isn't even worth it usually during a raid.

Raids can get you over 500 danger, that is just a small number for what 700 turns of plundering can do.

Before a raid, a pirate usually saves up 700 turns. So 700/4 = 175 attacks. 175*6 = 1050 danger. Ya the tail will definitely sink. If those 175 attacks didn't get any plunder, the pirate wasted turns, and got minimal gold, in return their war fleet is helplessly at risk of being sank.

[Meliva]

chin, you keep missing the point others keep making.

this law, will help pirates, that is true, it will make it eaiser for them to get more gold from plundering other players, you dislike this thinking it would be biased towards pirates and make it easy for them to strip a merchant down.

But this law, is only a 2% increase, that is not that much, and will not be game breaking. Not to mention that the sink rate change, as we have discussed would help pirates, and merchants alike. but merchants would benefit the most from that change.

so, these 2 things, would balance each other out. if we don't implement one, I say we should not implement the other.

also chin. pirates have a lot less to lose then a merchant, so why would a merchant hit back when that may cause the pirate to plunder even more.
Edit- on my last point, I do not mean a merchant should do nothing when a pirate hits you, it varies case by case, on how badly you were hit, how strong is the attacker, what voodoo you own, etc. usually a plunder or 2 when your already on the danger board or a skirmish is nothing to get worked up about.