Dev Team - Flagships

[DezNutz]

What a shame it was to go back to the original concept and post of the flagship by JessyA only to find it moved to the archives without the ability to comment or post on it..

Guess i post It here,

Its all fine and dandy to want to switch the ability over for all to have a flagship and not just pirates,but to water it down and away from what it was meant to be and do only to make it functional for a trader is ludacris. This ship by purpose was for a pirates battle involvement, edge etc. Sure many merchants wont find it useful as it was given they are not in the same line of work, but they have other features that fill their pockets which pirates have no need for.

The one f***ing feature pirates have looked forward to and for near 3 years or more and it gets twisted so badly it becomes pointless to hold as a pirate. You think the flagship will make pirates have less to lose if designed as we wanted or close to it? On the contrary, if i had a ship worth having and defending thatd be a target to get me back for sure, as it stands though, this ship now has no point in being built by even a pirate so why would I? May as well stick to a sloop.

Hope you merchants enjoy your “Floating magical coin sh***ing box of wood that happens to float in a port protecting all of your other fleets that have said port on their trade route”

In discussion with CJ ( in case you weren't aware JessicaA was an alternate account for CJ when there was two people managing PG. The person currently behind CJ was JessicaA.) it was a point of topic to work on a Flagship Baseline that all players could use. A Baseline. Something basic to get the ball rolling. Now I fully get the reasoning of if you don't go all out it may never get added onto later. That's a possibility, but that doesn't mean that is the case. It's defeatism and I'm not into defeatism.

Flagships like any major feature is like building a home. We have to have a solid foundation, floors, walls, plumbing, electrical. But we have so many players focused on the pixel count on the TV they will put in the family room.

[Charles Vane]

Aye, my point... the foundation should not be laid in a manner that deviates from the original idea.

This is supposed to be a combat ship, one customized by the player to enhance its prowess in battle. Many are stuck on the point of, "well why should a merchant build one then".. they dont have to if they are not focused on battle. Pirates dont need to have plantations either. Their choice.

Its getting so skewed the new question I find myself asking myself is.... "why the hell would I want one?"

[DezNutz]

Aye, my point... the foundation should not be laid in a manor that deviates from the original idea.

This is supposed to be a combat ship, one customized by the player to enhance its prowess in battle. Many are stuck on the point of, "well why should a merchant build one then".. they dont have to if they are not focused on battle. Pirates dont need to have plantations either. Their choice.

Its getting so skewed the new question I find myself asking myself is.... "why the hell would I want one?"

Ok so how does a bonus that requires combat action to gain that bonus veer from combat action?

You are all arguing semantics. Why do you care what someone else uses their flagship for? You can select the bonuses you want to use on yours. Should Little Johnny dictate how you use and set your bonuses? If you don't like what they are using their flagship for, try stealing it. Make them fight to keep those bonuses. If they setup their ship poorly and don't make combat considerations on top of the other bonuses they can choose from, that's a risk they are taking.

I'm tired of the whining about Traders this, Traders that, I thought this was Pirates Glory not Traders Glory, evening the score, blah, blah, blah. Most of the complaints come from players that don't even fly the black flag. Flagships isn't going to change how a player gets plundered. If traders are so fat with money, plunder them. Flagships isn't going to magically change plunder. You still have to perform the actions. Flagships is an incentive to perform PvP. It doesn't matter who is performing the PvP. And what they use that experience they gained from plundering, isn't going to be a narrow selection. It can't be. A narrow selection of abilities, isn't an incentive to the player base as a whole.

[Mack]

[Charles Vane]

The incentives to perform pvp are lacking. The bonus gained are passive and pointless for pirates half the time. Bonuses should improve combat prowess. How does mitigating danger make my ship better? and thats one of the better options here. As a 4th or 5th option to level sure its handy, but I want a ship i can pack more crew in, more guns, improve the rigging to make is faster. I want a ship worth using because its feared and can win. Otherwise no point in investing the time and resources to defend it.

Yes there are some small benefits like defense and speed mentioned but most like escape without paying ransom? not offensive at all, guard?, gain fame?, voodoo block? (with levi pro its useless).

None improve the offensive or raiding capabilities of the ship.



Old post + suggestions there,

Improved plunder, more guns, fleets who attack the flagship gain more danger, bow chasers for a bonus hit to lead ship before battle starts, Even just one trumps any listed in this suggestion for abilities.


Im trying to point out that currently, theres no point from a combat perspective to own one of the currently suggested ships.

[Mack]

yeah i think the people have made it clear this aint a pirate game in their future. they want easy gold with time instead

[Hawk]

The incentives to perform pvp are lacking.

A pvp based leveling system with more to offer different play styles, encourages more people to battle and level flagships, for a larger variety of reasons.

The bonus gained are passive and pointless for pirates half the time.

They are not pointless, most of them are just not what you are looking for personally

Bonuses should improve combat prowess. How does mitigating danger make my ship better? and thats one of the better options here.

It doesn't. It helps reduce risk, and gold loss from retaliation.

As a 4th or 5th option to level sure its handy, but I want a ship i can pack more crew in, more guns, improve the rigging to make is faster. I want a ship worth using because its feared and can win. Otherwise no point in investing the time and resources to defend it.

I actually completely feel you here Vane. Here is the problem. You want a lower-base value, powerful ship, that can take on bigger ones. Right now Pirate players can steal powerful (and valuable) ships. But it takes three things.

1) Planning
2) Turns (To attack and for voodoo)
3) Voodoo (To damage the ships so your fleet can beat them)

If you want to be able to skip the damaging voodoo, pirates have to in turn, hold stronger ships. Which then get most likely get targeted by retaliation. Which is why in this game (and historically) pirates run light, targeting defensiveness trade fleets, unless they are planning a big heist.

While your desire for flagships would be great for Pirates. It would be imbalancing, further reducing trader recourse. It would allow pirates to just ignore what is already possible, but quite fairly takes more turns, voodoo, and planning, in favor of an easy super combat ship. This is not viable or fair, and is why the proposal is focused on ways to still benefit the play-style, but while avoiding the super ship.

Yes there are some small benefits like defense and speed mentioned but most like escape without paying ransom? not offensive at all, guard?, gain fame?, voodoo block? (with levi pro its useless).

Yes, there are. In a small and balanced manner which will not be overpowered. If you choose to level those abilities because that is what you are looking for, then you will have noticeable combat improvement. Add in MC's to max attributes, and Fire Assault, and guess what mate.. you have your low base-price badass ship. In a reasonable and balanced manner however.

Other players may, and should choose to level different abilities, based on what they are looking for. I understand if you aren't interested in them, but it's not all about you mate. (Said with respect.)

Improved plunder, more guns, fleets who attack the flagship gain more danger, bow chasers for a bonus hit to lead ship before battle starts, Even just one trumps any listed in this suggestion for abilities.

I personally think several of those have merit and should be discussed. Especially the improved plunder and the danger manipulation.

trying to point out that currently, theres no point from a combat perspective to own one of the currently suggested ships.

There are two combat-affecting abilities, which can have significant impact on battle. Three if you count the fame bonus for pirates, but that is proposed to be reviewed later.

[Charles Vane]

Thank you for your views and clarifications hawk.

I’ve said my views as was intended and we’ll see what the devs come up with.

[DezNutz]

dez i dont disagree that compromises need to be made however when it comes to mechanics or math being argued against with rhetoric that says yeah you may be right but this is how i want it so heck with it making sense or working any way other than i and my influences want it.

if a mechanic or ideal doesnt fit due to it being ones sided you cant try to shame that away, i will be the loud multiple poster and return the attitude given as if multiple posts takes away from an argument.

when you ask for feedback but dont like the feedback you get then there needs to be a serious undertaking of analyzing what is being criticized if you meet criticism with things like if you disagree you are a trader or you cant get everything your way or this sounds like crying they got more than me then you set the tone for a hard headed discussion.

for me to even come at the player base with such a lopsided ship intended for pirates suddenly becoming a billion dollar boat for traders long term i would expect an uproar

i am hard headed vocal and dont care to meet anyone on the grounds they choose or it can be a discussion but either way sensibilities and honest evaluation is needed to make it work to pretend otherwise will keep the discussion where it currently sits and i am fine either way but i will voice my thoughts the entire time because it is forums and i have as much right to posting here as anyone else

by the way dez you have posted a lot so i may need to discount your opinion lol jk

It's been explained why flagships is not just for pirates. That's the biggest complaint and yet we always come back to it even after it being explained.

So why do you think Flagships which were not limited to pirates should only be limited to pirates?

Isn't the current complaint with being a pirate that pirates have a high risk to gain compared to a trader. So what does a special ship and fleet going to change about that risk?

I see nothing wrong with Flagships being available to all players. I think that flagships should be a path to PvP. To do that, flagships must have incentives to do as such. As I said before, why do you care what another player does with his flagship. If you can setup your flagship as you want, why does it matter how they use theirs.

With that being said, I'm all for feedback, but there needs to be something more than this isn't pirates flagship. Additionally, those providing feedback just like those that putting forth the suggestion will have reasons for their arguments. Pushback is going to happen and should be expected. I have provided my opinion just like anyone else. If you look through this suggestion will see no where have I voted one way or the other.

IMO there is still some work to be done. What I would like to see is a better approach to bonus/abilities. I have brought forth an idea (Bonuses would be Ship Attributes plus some other things) in slack and it has some benefits but it could result in some really powerful ships. But with that, there could also be some other abilities added to what I suggested. There was pushback from the other team members. That is where the contention is. The benefits that can be set.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Personal view here : As described so far I doubt I will bother with maintaining a flag-ship : I see little benefit in owning one : if you need a big-bang ship there is already 60att SotLs and MoWs : I dont really see the need for them either unless losing pains your ego so greatly life would be pointless without one.
Fact is one of the most annoying possessions is a near-unbeatable fleet : it sits forever clouded in danger and subject to a raid whilst no-body goes near it to wash down the mucky DP on it.
When I raid a little I positively want a stronger fleet to clean me down after : if I have gone about my business wisely then its no great cost and my profits are still secured. And the fleet itself is now free to go about whatever business needs doing.
Failing that it sits tempting the green-eyed monsters and must be guarded and watched over constantly lest one decides the ships are more interesting than the thin slice of the purse it carries. How dull.
It has been suggested that flags should be enforced : we will all have to nominate one : if an idea must be enforced it has already failed.
If a pirate needs a seriously feck-off ship to raids under-armed trade fleets well.. some-one needs to learn a bit more about the game.
Chiefly my issue is 'Do we need another ego-piece in this game?' : my own feeling is no we dont but that doesnt mean some players dont need them. Let them have it but dont force it on those less bothered by such fripperies.