Ship Prices discussion

[Captain Jack]

No no, attributes will be level 20 too. There will just be the same number of attributes given (3-5) per level.

are you planning on having another way to gain additional attributes beside master craftsman?

Well, we could have some ships innate abilities that will generate more attributes by default.

Only as an example:
A howker will generate 3-5 attributes per level.
A brigantine though, will generate 5-7 attributes per level.

So, 5*20 = at least 100 attribute points to spend to at least 8 skills.

We are open to ideas. This falls into ship specialization feature.

[Admiral Nelson]

100 attributes?

Hell we will be as strong as you nearly!

On a serious note, I am guessing there will be more 'elements' of ships to stack?

[Sebena]

I don't really care because I can afford ships with any price raise I am just affraid for players who just join they need ships to start earning it will be mostly howkers but still do you expect someone who just started to have enough money to buy goldbars for their development... I don't which will lead to taking loans it is good at first sight but who will return those loans to bankers when players give up? This implementation will drive players out of the game more when we all want to keep them here and improve our player base....

[Slindur]

No no, attributes will be level 20 too. There will just be the same number of attributes given (3-5) per level.

are you planning on having another way to gain additional attributes beside master craftsman?

Well, we could have some ships innate abilities that will generate more attributes by default.

Only as an example:
A howker will generate 3-5 attributes per level.
A brigantine though, will generate 5-7 attributes per level.

So, 5*20 = at least 100 attribute points to spend to at least 8 skills.

We are open to ideas. This falls into ship specialization feature.

While I like increased attribute points and taking ships to 20 on an attribute instead of 10, I caution having new ships level this way WITHOUT doing anything to existing ships. This would make the current best ships near obsolete IF they do not receive a bonus when this rolls out. For example, the best fighting ship in the game now is a MoW with 60 ATT points, level 10 all across the board. Compare this to a MoW who gets now perhaps 7-9 ATT points per level and ends up with 110 ATT points. This would devastate the current best ship in the game, and all ships that are afloat would likely only be worth selling to the shipyard (definitely not the player's ship market) IF they do not get a boost.

The boost could be based on ship type. So (from the examples from CJ) Howker's get no boost because of no change from now to future rates, but brig's get a 1.5 x current ATT point when this is implemented. The boost can be new, unattributed ship points that people can choose where to stick them (or if that is too hard to code, could just multiply their current ships ATTs where they are by 1.5, though I am not as big a fan of this).

I think that this is a HUGE thing to be aware of and to plan for because the new ships would quickly make old ships near obsolete for fighting and defending.

Slindur

[Grimrock Litless]

60 att ship's prices will drop instantly.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I recall when Large Frigates had their gun count changed, it was possible to uprate all (Most? Not sure about the sunken sea-bed ones) the existing ships to the new configuration.

I share the concern that a new upper attribute count would make current ships pretty poor in comparison, or cause owners to have to invest in mega amounts of MC's to catch up with the new-builds.

Regarding Gold Bar costs for ship-builds : I think it wise to keep a set of 'basic' ships free from such a cost, especially for newer players still caught in the early 'earn to build to earn to build more' expansion phase : the sloop and howker are such vessels : I would add a larger trade ship, perhaps the plain galleon, fluyt and merchantman : not as good as their more profitable bigger brethren but capable of earning the coin to aim for them : for warships, I would include the brigantine and war galleon in this category of 'starter vessels' free of gold bar costs. the rest could have GB added to the materials needed to build them. By the time a player has stepped up to that level, obtaining sufficient gold bars would be less of a mystery or expense.

addendum : I recall a discussion way back about players being able to upgrade ships to larger variants : galleon to trade galleon, for example : perhaps this could be part of the new expansion strategy : new players build galleons/merchantmen/fluyts, then later can upgrade them using GB's to obtain trade galleons, large fluyts and large merchantmen : warships could work the same way, sloops to SoW and brigantine to BoW, for example.

[Shadowood]

CJ - Charles Vane had a good suggestion regarding the new abilities and a way to "earn" the ATT points needed for these new abilities.

- 2 abilities to choose from
- Max level 10 for each ability
- War ships earn levels based on battles they were a part of and won (10 battles level one, 20 for level 2, 30 for level 3, 50 for 4, 80 for 5........ 890 for level 10) Always adding the previous two level requirements together to determine the new levels req.
- Trade ships earn levels based on profit, (gold bars could make this quite easy and create more bar trade) (havn't thought the level reqs through yet.)

There is more to this discussion on the "Ship Ability" thread. Something to consider and you wouldn't have to change any of the current set up. The idea comes from JessicaA's CP's idea for Pirate Flag Ship.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254&hilit=ship+ability&start=70

[Most Lee Harmless]

The problem with Vanes idea is one of legacy : My 60 att ships have already done their 100's of battles but, should this be introduced, start at the same place as any new build : they will have to win 100's more battles to be developed with the new atts. Likewise my trade fleets, which have traded for years and visited 1000's of ports, they get to start at day one too. Now, I doubt the game has ever kept track of each ships participation in battles or trade, for, under this system, every ship will require its own history and battle/trade score to know when it has earned a new upgrade point. Thats an awful lot of computing going on for every battle and every port visit : then there is crossover scores : my warships also trade : do they earn trade points too when they enter a port? Do my armed trade ships score points when they win a battle, or are part of a battle fleet?

The whole thing becomes rather unwieldy indeed, sufficient to give even the cleverest Kracken a head ache : and that would be a bad thing.

[Shadowood]

You make a good point... but with a new update should anyone be entitled to past performances?
When the Hideout was introduced, no one was given a leg up, but veteran players who had fat stacks of cash saved I would say had a leg up, but they still had to work for it.

I wouldn't mind putting in a extra effort to gain new abilities... But wouldn't mind a more simply way either. Just good talking points is all.

It does bring up another question however, what happens to existing ships ATT points. Do we all get a Remodel per ship we own to redistribute ATT points?

[Psychodad]

After the update, we all get gold coin value for all ships owned plus a level 10 hawker (except Captain Da Vinci, he gets a hawker and a sloop). All ports are released back to the wild. Let the fun begin.