Plunder Formula tweak discussion

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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Most Lee Harmless » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:27 pm

Careful what you wish for : if the trader loses more plunder on each hit, then they will do the math and start to arm their fleets with sufficient strength to force the raiders to step up their fleet stature, thus exposing themselves to more expensive retaliation either by voodoo damage to those ships or plundering raids by other raiders : pirates, you want nice phat unarmed merchantmen and howkers to feed from, not frigates, flag galleons or worse : sure, we all want more coin for our daily efforts, but its a balance, make your depredations too severe and the traders will bite back to your ultimate disadvantage.
-1 : Move to archive.
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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby ChaIbaud » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:28 pm

Danik wrote:Careful what you wish for : if the trader loses more plunder on each hit, then they will do the math and start to arm their fleets with sufficient strength to force the raiders to step up their fleet stature, thus exposing themselves to more expensive retaliation either by voodoo damage to those ships or plundering raids by other raiders : pirates, you want nice phat unarmed merchantmen and howkers to feed from, not frigates, flag galleons or worse : sure, we all want more coin for our daily efforts, but its a balance, make your depredations too severe and the traders will bite back to your ultimate disadvantage.

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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Crackedcubes » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:07 pm

Danik wrote:Careful what you wish for : if the trader loses more plunder on each hit, then they will do the math and start to arm their fleets with sufficient strength to force the raiders to step up their fleet stature, thus exposing themselves to more expensive retaliation either by voodoo damage to those ships or plundering raids by other raiders : pirates, you want nice phat unarmed merchantmen and howkers to feed from, not frigates, flag galleons or worse : sure, we all want more coin for our daily efforts, but its a balance, make your depredations too severe and the traders will bite back to your ultimate disadvantage.


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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Lockreed » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:42 am

Did we just go full circle to the original proposal by the admin?
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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Cdv » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:02 am

A long discussion with plenty of opinions and suggestions. Now, my two cents worth.

I like Proposal B as it is. It keeps the plunder percentage and maximum plunder at status quo for those who are against any change while, at the same time, providing options for advancement in both attack and defence for those willing to work for it. It also gives extra booty to the attacker through Advanced Piracy and ship level plunder. For the defender, it gives the same level of protection he is used to, except against an attacker with superior skills developed through the Academy.

I also like these ideas of Captain Jack's...
Captain Jack wrote:I can propose more things to appeal to everyone. We can change Ship Plunder rules for example. Give pirates the right to plunder a ship that heads for ship bottom (regardless if the opponent has enough gold). Or make this right a percentage bonus with technology. Or give defenders the right to choose a limit on when to hand out the ship or pay the gc bounty.

I can surely think of more mechanisms that do not hurt the ship owners more than they do now.

The ship plunder idea is great. I wish I had had that when I was plundering! Maybe a 2.5% chance per level of research to plunder a sinking ship would be good, or it could be higher. The ability to set a limit to choose your ship or your gold is an interesting idea too and could lead to various strategies. I'd love to know what other mechanisms Captain Jack has up his sleeve! ;)

SHM had pretty good ideas as well. I think the turn cost for skirmishes can be halved. On the same note, I think NPC patrol cost could be halved as well, 1 turn to patrol and 1 turn to attack. The danger gained can be reduced as well, like SHM said. Imho, skirmishes are a 'lesser' form of plunder that lies between hitting NPCs, which does not affect another player, and regular plunder. A danger of 2 per skirmish would give the attacker 6 danger for the 3 daily skirmishes, but also provide an option for the patient plunderer to stay off the radar. This could induce players who would otherwise not use the skirmish feature to do so. I disagree with SHM's third point. 3 skirmishes an hour is 72 per day - way too high. If the purpose of the changes is to increase the number of battles without creating animosity, this is not it. The quota could be increased slightly though. And, as I said before, the bonus per level of Piracy research can be raised to 5k for both plunder and skirmish(but that is for another topic).

The objectives mentioned by Captain Jack in the other thread were(in my own words), to help players defend better, to prevent players from losing everything while they sleep, and to increase the number of meaningful battles in the seas of Avonmora. I don't know if Proposal B and changes in skirmishing will be enough to effect that but I believe it will nudge it towards the right direction.
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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Crackedcubes » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:13 am

Well stated Cdv!

We might consider requesting "No Danger Points" when a fleet escapes our attempt to skirmish.. That would help...
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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Admiral Nelson » Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:33 am

Crackedcubes wrote:Well stated Cdv!

We might consider requesting "No Danger Points" when a fleet escapes our attempt to skirmish.. That would help...


Do we gain danger if it escapes?
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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Haron » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:26 am

Yes, Nelson. We gain danger, lose a skirmish point, and it counts as one of the max five attacks against that target each day. It doesn't cost turns, though.
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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Admiral Nelson » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:27 am

Haron wrote:Yes, Nelson. We gain danger, lose a skirmish point, and it counts as one of the max five attacks against that target each day. It doesn't cost turns, though.


I do not recall this doing such before, but a lot has changed.
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Re: Plunder Formula tweak discussion

Postby Captain Jack » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:11 am

(No editing afterwards due to few time, please excuse my grammar/typos)

The objectives are more or like as CDV summarized.

I have updated the first post again, with the 2 ideas that have been brought here and can be implemented right away to improve gameplay. I refer to no turn cost for skirmish (we can decide later if we need a technology to regulate turns cost or bind it to skirmish technology) and Ship plunder when a ship heads to sea bottom (50% chance for now, only when the winner is the attacker, later on we could use a technology but I think that there is no need for a tch here yet. We can use First mate feature idea to affect this in the future).

Regarding the idea of increasing the skirmish storage with Skirmish technology, I agree. Let's leave it for a later point though.

As for more ideas, I have nothing specific in mind. These come as I type here. After all, this is a brainstorming discussion that we openly run with the playerbase. Let's be realistic after all; without your help we cannot produce the best result. We need to hear the problems you encounter and your wishes. If you got proposals, even better. With all your feedback and an open mind we can produce this great result we need for everyone.

The idea of Haron with Blockades and ports, influence as also stated by others is also an important element. Perhaps the time for it is nearing. After all, the game version is nearing version 2.0 and what seemed like the distant future some years ago, now seems like the near present.

Besides new feature ideas that can chain to the plunder rules, we have many existing features we can use.

Enough chit chat though, let me reveal our initial plan that was made a long time ago.

Truth is that I have stated it partially through many posts. I will try to summarize it here.

Objective 1: More battles
More battles = more fun

Objective 2: No hateful gameplay
Lowlifes must never be able to hold anyone at bay

Objective 3: More strategic options
Again, more options = more fun. This is a permanent objective for anything we develop but it needs to be named.

The rest are really details. Yes, merchants should be allowed more fleets as a whole so the attackers spread their plunders across a larger number of players. This will result in greater profits for attackers and defenders and less hate.

Yes, the defenders need more reliant ways to defend, especially large fleets. Or else, how one would expect them to make their fleets larger?

The attackers needs higher average profit, or else how one would expect them not to resort to low-life strategies that produce hate? Or how you can expect the average player to resort in plundering if the payouts are few. 3 plunders profit must be larger than 1 defense loss. So, which is the greatest problem when comparing profit; ship sink chance. Change it! What else? Plunder formula. Find a better one!

What else we need? Ship specialization! Just how long are we planning and developing for this? Years! Get more features, plan ahead, find the ending point.

Low lifes are still a problem! Really? Bounties!

Meawhile... credit exchange is not as vivid... players got some interesting ideas about a stock exchange... prioritize this!

Back to the original design, how we will meet the objectives? Do we know every aspect? Discuss it with the players! Have we got any good solutions? No! Discuss it again! Find a way that works for everyone!

What about the plan? You had no plan? No, we had! Our plan was skirmishes! And in this discussion it becomes clear that as we discuss about the plunder formula, the players discuss about the skirmish. Because our initial plan to boost battles was skirmishes. It still is after all as we find skirmishes to be perhaps the best way to get big shipmasters involved in plundering and expose their large war fleets.

Skirmish is a project in progress after all and we already gathered some very interesting ideas that can help it further.

We still need a new plunder formula though as Objective 2 and Objective 3 command that if someone wants to prepare for a good defense to feel ultra safe, he should be allowed. Right now, the best defense is 1 mindbar + 3 countercurse 24/7. This costs a lot though. Or it does not? About 13 credits a day or 1.35M a day. So, perhaps we should stop caring about this so much and focus at other parts? Some will say yes. We want to know what most say though; we will not necessarily follow it though. We simply need to know.

Another idea is to use a Legendary card, produced by the (future feature) Witch Hut that has synergy with mindbar and produces a nearly unbreakable shell than what mindbar and countercurse provides.

I simply prefer to continue the brainstorming. We have already two ideas where everyone already agrees with. These 2 ideas are already a big profit for the game.
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