[Review] Infulence Wars, Ways it could be improved

[Stan Rogers]

I still stand with my input previously but I failed to make any proposals.
Something I thought worked but was a bit cheezy was how recruits were purchased with influence only.
I would well imagine anyone with fame would have some impact on their ability to recruit new crew or at least what a captain would have to pay for recruits would be dependent on his fame.

In some taverns, a famous captain/pirate could get crew to join for free ?

Crew, for the more seasoned players as if I am any example, the influence spent over the weeks and months mean crewing a ship is a non-issue and I do not even check to see if influence numbers need raising to hire. This also impacts effectiveness of some voodoo
Can't ever remember being denied crew or asked for more influence to hire anyone in the last 12 months.

I know it is not directly related to the topic on point but it does deal with influence.

Right now tho, to fight with pure gold or voodoo only in port wars is a bit of a lame area that could use some intelligent discussion
and reworking a little.
I still say put forts and cannon in ports and ship ability to fire on a port to reduce population, influence and reduce fort/port defence ability to start.
I do not think the current system needs to be nerfed.. I think it needs expansion

[Hawk]

Propaganda is the counter to Charity Donation and the one to stir up wars. Do we really need just another war excuse/reason out of the game? We need to increase such elements at current state.

Conspiracy is yet another card to control donation, without stirring up wars. Good tool I say. You can use it to trigger wars between other nations while you sit back and enjoy. This alone, is a good enough reason to keep it, imo.

With 2 cards bouncing off Charity Donation, it is not Charity Donation that needs nerf but some more aggression by the players to actually use the two cards above.

The cards are also a good balance to the percentage based daily loss.

Ultimately, I wouldn't say that influence wars are simple. Many have tried them and many have lost fortunes overnight. They are much more difficult than they seem and only after you managed to control a port for a really long time, you get to realize this.

I had no war, in fact, I didn't even need ships. I could have done exactly the same thing with nothing to my name. And the only the only defense? A mindbar. Sounds pretty simple to me.. and it was lol. That war would of consisted of "Who had more charity donation vs propaganda". Very complex.

Now.. what would actually be war? Having to cast other voodoo, to disrupt trade routes and profit. This would make takeovers longer and more realistic, as well as adding value to donated gold, As right now influence is just a stat to me manipulated by voodoo, and gold completely loses it's values as influence. I mean, think about it.. A single uncommon voodoo card is worth several sotls? Certainly not in the market, I don't see a single charity donation selling for 100+ credits. The only viable way to get influence would be to turn your gold into credits is to bid on charity donations, and that gets rid of the team aspect of claiming a port. There are only so many cards to bid on, so smaller donations are less than meaningless with the numbers going around. You are telling smaller or middle class players "You are pointless" and f2p players "Don't even bother trying.. you can lose 90% of your investment in under 10 seconds. Besides, you won't even be in the running without voodoo anyway".

Now, consider if influence was untouchable by voodoo (The opposite extreme). Players would be encouraged to donate gold and your influence would directly reflect your gold income. Increasing the value of a single noble, and promoting trading and nation cohesion. Attacks on trade fleets becomes a serious matter, and there is no deterrent for players to made an influence bid, getting more players involved. I see no reason for less wars in this world, only more.

Yes, I will agree that other aspects of the game make holding a port involve more than just three cards. But that does not mean that the game mechanics at play for influence are not sorely lacking.

Right now tho, to fight with pure gold or voodoo only in port wars is a bit of a lame area that could use some intelligent discussion
and reworking a little.
I still say put forts and cannon in ports and ship ability to fire on a port to reduce population, influence and reduce fort/port defence ability to start.
I do not think the current system needs to be nerfed.. I think it needs expansion

Yes, a middle ground would be nice. As for the forts and such, that would be pretty awesome
As would many other features that have been suggested / approved.. I guess I'm just trying to focus on what we currently have that can be improved upon.

[Captain Jack]

Let me underline what you mentioned; credit exchange can transform your gold coin to charity donation cards.

I still insist that you see a very complex issue as flat. You overlook the fact that charity donation cards are not only finite but also they are one of the most rare cards around. Which is the last time you heard anyone keeping a large sum of them?

You also overlook the fact that for the donation card to be anywhere worthwhile, you need to invest a good amount of gold coins. With the price of Charity donation avg about 18 credits and credit exchange rate at 155k, then every donation card can be exchanged for 2.8M.

For 2.8M you get 280k influence. To get 280k influence from the donation card, you need to have at least 5.6M raised though gold coins. This is where Donation cards become more worthwhile than gold coins (Build Up port). And remember, donation cards require turns whereas gold does not (gold also brings in population). To get to 5.6M influence, you need 56M gold coins. That's already a big enough sum to spend and for those not having it but still wanting to participate in the influence game, charity donation is their only way.

Regarding the ability to play the witch doctor and participate in a war, this is not specific to influence wars only. It is a global issue; Click here to see our input on it. I dare say, influence wars are the least concern when we approach the nothing-to-lose witch doctors issue.

I can keep writing in detail for at least 3 more strong arguments here (propaganda cheaper that donation, propaganda always more in quantity than donation, 1% daily loss per day) but I feel the point has been made already.

Charity donation cards have always been one of the most controversial cards in the game. This is not the first time a request to remove or change them has came.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1046&p=12005 - By Spastic
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=355 - By Hawk
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1115 - By Mohammed
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=609 - By Black Sparrow

With all its disadvantages, charity donation and the rest influence cards are part of the game. The players ultimately shape everything. Let's not forget that without influence cards, the richer would always win.

Till we can get an expansion like Stan Rogers explains, we are remain unconvinced for a change in current status.

[PhoenixKnight]

I agree with captain Jack. I did some math and I can tell you that Charity donations have no real added value in influence wars until you have at least paid 20 million gc in the port for influence. At that point only, charity donation cards start to be more beneficial than gold. Even then you need 20 of them at least to be able to make a dent and even more to take over a port.

[Hawk]

I agree with captain Jack. I did some math and I can tell you that Charity donations have no real added value in influence wars until you have at least paid 20 million gc in the port for influence. At that point only, charity donation cards start to be more beneficial than gold. Even then you need 20 of them at least to be able to make a dent and even more to take over a port.

You also overlook the fact that for the donation card to be anywhere worthwhile, you need to invest a good amount of gold coins. With the price of Charity donation avg about 18 credits and credit exchange rate at 155k, then every donation card can be exchanged for 2.8M.

That 20 million is about the cost of a ship of the line. It is really only an entry fee to "join the club" and after that gold donations are completely irrelevant (I exaggerate only to the smallest degree). I disregarded it because the game disregards it after it's brief stage time.

I still insist that you see a very complex issue as flat. You overlook the fact that charity donation cards are not only finite but also they are one of the most rare cards around. Which is the last time you heard anyone keeping a large sum of them?

Now, upon paying this "entry fee" Players can then aid their nation in port control and influence battles.. Expect, the only way to do that is with three certain voodoo cards. (We are assuming he is playing for personal gain. If he truly wanted to aid his nations in port control, then charity donation would better be used on a player already with mass amounts of influence, and negative influential voodoo can be cast without the player holding any stake at all, not very engaging.. is that the extent a player can contribute to his nation?). You said charity donation is rare. Well, that certainly caps the amount of players who can get involved with influence. Is that your intent? If a player has to acquire this card (wait, several of this card) to participate, then most players won't, rather, can't, participate. Not even to a small extent.

With all its disadvantages, charity donation and the rest influence cards are part of the game. The players ultimately shape everything. Let's not forget that without influence cards, the richer would always win.

Now who is looking at it too simply?

The fact is, it would not be the richest players who always win. But the most organized nations. As I said before, without these voodoo cards, each individual noble will become more valuable, and it would be the nation that can mobilize the best that would control ports. Even the richest players would be forced to focus on the ports they want, as if they spread influence out too much, they would not be able to beat -up and coming- nations solely focused on that port. As it is now, once paying the "entry fee" at a port, a player could control any number of ports with enough voodoo. He is not motivated to interact with his nation.

The richest already win, but it's the voodoo rich. Shouldn't the tangible wealth of a nation (which actually requires time, strategy, and teamwork) be the deciding factor?

As for the players who invested in these cards, let them keep them maybe? You can nerf new editions only, treat them as a different card but with the same name. Possible solution, as other than that I do not see the game and players anything but benefiting from this proposed change.

Also, thanks for the for the topic links. It seems I was remiss in my research of previous discussions of this sort. One I even commented on (Oh so long ago lol). It seems many established traders and nobleman, (with far more experience than I in these matters), see the same loss of potential in an awesome feature. As well as the overbearing power of the voodoo cards that hamper it.

With the upmost respect,
-Skyhawk

[DezNutz]

Vote to Archive

[PFH]

Vote to archive

But still good points on the concept

[VagSmasher]

I think that yeah the cards are fine. I believe that is the point of charity donations because they encourage you to have a higher influence. The more you have the more you get. But still even then, gold still plays a role because it cost around 5mil gold too but a charity donation card the go for around 17 credits at the moment which is one of the more expensive cards.

[PFH]

Needs more votes

[Shadowood]

I think the current system is fine!

Nothing to see here