Garnishing Income for Overdue Loans

[Most Lee Harmless]

I have previously suggested a simpler cure for defaulters and debtors : do not allow auto-pay to be switched off : absolute zero-ing of the debtors funds at reset would be cruel, but perhaps a small margin should be left so they dont lose crew and cannon each time : they could try to operate within that margin, but would leave themselves open to raids and potential ship loss with such a small purse : after all, they chose to take out the loan, they chose to join a nation and accepted the prevailing tax rate as published within each nations info pages.

[Brazzler]

I have previously suggested a simpler cure for defaulters and debtors : do not allow auto-pay to be switched off : absolute zero-ing of the debtors funds at reset would be cruel, but perhaps a small margin should be left so they dont lose crew and cannon each time : they could try to operate within that margin, but would leave themselves open to raids and potential ship loss with such a small purse : after all, they chose to take out the loan, they chose to join a nation and accepted the prevailing tax rate as published within each nations info pages.

+1

[Mr. Rothschild]

I have previously suggested a simpler cure for defaulters and debtors : do not allow auto-pay to be switched off : absolute zero-ing of the debtors funds at reset would be cruel, but perhaps a small margin should be left so they dont lose crew and cannon each time : they could try to operate within that margin, but would leave themselves open to raids and potential ship loss with such a small purse : after all, they chose to take out the loan, they chose to join a nation and accepted the prevailing tax rate as published within each nations info pages.

+1 as well. This idea would solve my issues with the system and is a much easier addition. Auto Pay is mandatory and cannot be removed, and a base treasury limit of 50K or so. (payments made at update would not drop the debtor below 50K)

If the debtors payment is 25k per update and they only have 60K at the update, then the payment made would be the 10k available without dropping them below the hard limit. If he has several loans, the amount available could be split evenly towards all loans.

The base limit, whatever it may become, should not have the option to change it either such as tax payments and goldsmith production do.

[Most Lee Harmless]

I like the 50k limiter : Hidden Treasure has such a sum added when it is auto-used at reset so we can see a precedent for that figure exists already.

[Gunder]

I like the idea of making loans more secure for the bankers, but I don't like the idea of taking gold automatically at update, either from trade income, plunder income or permanent auto-pay.

I like the aspect of "don't pay, live with the consequences". The consequences just have to be tougher, IMO.

In the real world, or non-Avonmora-world, this is what would happen: The creditor would issue a request to arrest the vessel at a certain port. This is done to get security for the outstanding debt. When the debtor has either paid or given security, the vessel would be free to leave. If the debtor do not react, the vessel could be taken over by the creditor and sold on the market to get the outstanding debt covered.

This is what I propose for Avonmora: (please be advised that this might not be 100% thought trough, but I want yo get it out there)

Option 1:
When the repayment of the loan has been unpaid for, let's say, 30 days, the banker has the option to issue an arrest warrant to a specific nation/port. This arrest warrant has to be accepted by the king/governor/dukes etc., and a fee could be paid to the nation or nation in charge of the specific port. Depending on the amount of debt, the banker could choose a certain amount of ships/fleets to detain. The fleets would not be allowed to leave port until an agreement has been made with the banker. This would be up to the banker to determine what would be acceptable ie, 50% payment now, higher interest, shorter duration of repayment etc. or a mix of those. If no agreement is met, the bank would be able to place the ship/ships on the market and get credits in return. Any excess value would be transferred to the debtor / previous owner.

The banker would however often not be able to place an arrest warrant at all ports, unless the outstanding premium is very high. Some nations/ports might be more in favor of granting an arrest warrant than others (Like in the non-Avonmora-world). The debtor will most often not know where an arrest warrant is placed, and maybe not even be aware that a warrant is placed at all. Unless there are snitches.

Option 2:
This might be easier to implement. When a loan is made, an agreement is made of security for the loan. Let's say that somebody want to loan 100M, the borrower can choose to put his MoW (or less) as security. If the loan is defaulted, the vessel can be detained as described above. If no agreement is reached, the vessel would be sold at the market and excess value returned to the debtor.

I know that these changes are a bit complicated, but I like the idea of this better than forced payment, which seems very unrealistic.

[Mr. Rothschild]

Its a good thought, however Wage Garnishments are not unrealistic. They happen all the time.

[Gunder]

Its a good thought, however Wage Garnishments are not unrealistic. They happen all the time.

Also in the age where fierce pirates and brave merchants sailed the seas in wooden ships powered solely by the wind and current?

[Mr. Rothschild]

If you had a business and owed the bank or government money then yes, they would put a lean on your profits and collect.

If you were a pirate that was not practical no plausible no. Which is why I initially proposed the loan payments be deducted from daily trade route income made from trading. If you want to get away without paying your loan you'd need to give up trading and essentially become a fugitive or "pirate" and plunder for a living.

[Most Lee Harmless]

Its a good thought, however Wage Garnishments are not unrealistic. They happen all the time.

Also in the age where fierce pirates and brave merchants sailed the seas in wooden ships powered solely by the wind and current?

Back then, if you upset the Monarch : all your goods and chattels, lands and titles could be forfeit, you would be exiled at best, executed at worst, perhaps with a few years in a damp stinking dungeon on the way. Even the executions could be made to last a long painful time, like being hung in small cage and left to starve as an example to all. If captured by the Royal Navy, pirates were just hung from the yardarm on the spot, the ship and cargo being seized for prize money.

So, losing some coin every reset is hardly on the same scale...

[Psychodad]

Its a good thought, however Wage Garnishments are not unrealistic. They happen all the time.

Also in the age where fierce pirates and brave merchants sailed the seas in wooden ships powered solely by the wind and current?

Back then, if you upset the Monarch : all your goods and chattels, lands and titles could be forfeit, you would be exiled at best, executed at worst, perhaps with a few years in a damp stinking dungeon on the way. Even the executions could be made to last a long painful time, like being hung in small cage and left to starve as an example to all. If captured by the Royal Navy, pirates were just hung from the yardarm on the spot, the ship and cargo being seized for prize money.

So, losing some coin every reset is hardly on the same scale...

However, the debtor still had to be caught and there was no guarantee that he would have the gold, etc on his/her person. If we want realism, then perhaps the debtor is captured by some authority and "held" until he makes restitution or negotiates some equitable arrangement. If it's an inactive, then his property (whatever that may be) is seized by the trustee and all persons having a claim would then have to petition the trustee for a share of the proceeds.

I would like to be able to have longtime inactive players under my flag, forfeit properties for payment of taxes or just to clear out the detritus.