In another post earlier today I made the suggestion to take fishing away from trade ships and introduce three new fishing vessels into the game.

In one of the responses it was mentioned that the idea for a fishing vessel had been introduced in the game in the past and had been shot down. It was also mentioned that introducing fishing in general to the game had come to be seen as a mistake that could not be easily reversed.

If that be the case, and the option of adding fishing vessels to the game is indeed dead in the water, then I have a second proposal to make.

It is, I warn you, a bit more complex and would potentially change certain aspects of current game play, but I humbly submit the idea non-the less.

Why am I taking the time to do this, some of you may ask?

Because fishing in Avenmora feels down-right UN-natural!

Merchant trade ships were never made for setting nets and hauling fish to market! If they could speak they would say it is well beneath their dignity to be used in such a manner... They were made for the high seas and and chasing the horizon- and whatever lay beyond!

Not fish!!!

It cannot be denied that fishing is a significant part of Avenmora's culture, however.

The ideas I offer therefore are with the intention of making fishing more natural, and de-emphasizing the focus on it with regard to ships and merchant trade and such.

I offer for discussion the suggestion of adding Fisheries to the game.

Fisheries would be purchased at each port just like a warehouse is purchased, but at much higher initial cost.

The purpose of the fishery would be to provide food, which could be sold at the local port for cash or stored in the player's warehouse (assuming they owned one at that port).

If a player is responsible for providing food for plantation workers in the future, then building a fishery at the port where a plantation is owned may be one of the ways they can help keep their warehouse stocked.

A player would manage each of their fisheries in the following manner:

-A level one fishery would have X slots for fishing boats.

-Fishing boats of varying sizes and efficiencies could be purchased, but the larger the boat, the more number of slots it takes up at the fishery.

-Leveling up the fishery increases the number of slots available for boats.

-Boats that could be purchased would be such as in line with the ships I offered in the previous post, which can be read here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3766 Other ships could also be created to vary the options.

-Ships for the fishery would be built through the shipwright at the port where the fishery is located, and then sent to the fishery to be put to work. Fishing vessels could not be placed into merchant fleets.

-No fishing vessels would show up on plunder screens, and only whalers would show up on skirmish screens as described at the link above.

--Leveling up a fishery would become expensive fairly quickly, so much so that large fisheries would be owned by only those who were willing to make a significant investment in them. Profits from smaller fisheries would be no where near to being on par with even one average trade route, but a player that invested in several fisheries and leveled them up several times should experience comfortable profits in the early game. I would envision that a player could become a fishing tycoon if they wanted to make that their main income, but it should take time and resources, and be something that only the most committed players could achieve.

--Food produced through fisheries could play a part in population growth dynamics. Excess food production at a port leads to lower food sale values, and an increase in population growth. Ports where famine is being experienced would place a much higher value on food, and it would be in the players interest to transport food from their warehouse stocks to the port in need. Fisheries at the port in famine would also experience a boom in profits.

In this scenario, food itself would no longer be sold at the three ports where it is currently offered. Food would become a common product at each port, just as gold is available at each port, and the production of food could be tied to port population growth dynamics. It would have higher value in some ports than in others, and players that want to trade in food resources would purchase food from one port where it is abundant, and sell at another port where there is need.

In place of food at the three ports where it is currently available, I would suggest coal be added as a new trade resource in the game. It could have particular value at the ports selling iron, as coal is a fuel would be consumed firing the furnaces that smelt the ore.

There is much more that could be offered, but this will do for now. If there is any interest in discussing the issue further, it has many possibilities.

I would like to see fishing put in its proper place though, one way or the other. It belongs in the world of Avenmora, but not in trade vessels on the high seas.

Unless its a whaler loaded down with ambergris... Those would be pirate gold.

Respectfully submitted...

~TH~

What kind of profits and cost structure do you have in mind?

A gold smith costs about 2 billion to build. At max level and 100 workers you make 210 bars per hour / 5040 bars per day. With a return (at current levels) of $800 per bar, that is just over $4,000,000 per day.

You can buy 400 Captians from 1-400 for about 400,000,000. Add LMMs at 2 credits each (800 x 160,000 = 128 million). So for about 1/4 of the cost of gold smith you can have an armada of trading ships making 10-15 million per day. Which is 2-3 times the return over smith.

Plantations will be an interesting addition and I am intrigued with how Admin will set up the cost structure to implement and build it. With the current suggestion it just doesn't seem like it will make a big profit. At least not like the good old fashioned easy cheap boring trade routes. Don't get me wrong I trade too to bank roll my smith I'm a sucker for punishment I guess

From 0-400 that cost about 513 mill.

Mr.Pitt wrote:From 0-400 that cost about 513 mill.

Sorry. Forgot my tech...

Still trading is the cheapest way to go and most profitable.

With the e

Shadowood wrote:Still trading is the cheapest way to go and most profitable.

With the exception that trading exposes you to piracy. Gold bar production still requires movement of the gold bars, also exposing you to piracy. If one has the time to reset trade routes as prices change, be alert and ready to react to ne'er do wells who feel it's appropriate and justified to steal your hard earned gold, then I concede your point.

Shadowood wrote:What kind of profits and cost structure do you have in mind?

I do not have any solid numbers in mind.

In the grand scheme of the game, I am still new here. I do not know yet what income is possible from things such as banking or goldsmithing, the investments they require, or what manner of trade opportunities arise from the wealth those and other game mechanics generate.

What I have offered in the two posts on the subject of fishing are thoughts on how to address the over-powered nature of fishing in the game in a way that separates it from the merchant trade aspect of the game.

It seems that the wealthiest and strongest players in the game should be those who build their empire by being the greatest merchants and pirates, not the greatest fishermen. I've never heard of pirates raiding fishing vessels in history past (unless they were whalers perhaps), but a lot of the wealth in the game seems to be being generated by merchant ships out fishing that do not show up on plunder or skirmish screens. I am one of them, but it is required in order to compete, given the current game dynamics.

The details you ask for would have to be hashed out by more experienced/knowledgeable players, if you guys thought the idea was worth spending the time on.

I would envision that a player who invests heavily in building up fisheries in each port could become quite wealthy, but establishing large fisheries in all ports should be a feat on par with the most difficult and expensive aspects of the game, with similar payouts.

-1

There is nothing wrong with fishing in how it works now.

Don't think we need a multitude of new ships just for fishing. The Admins came up with the Dogger for fishing, but never implemented it.

Fishing fleets not being susceptible to the plunder or skirmish board makes them a guaranteed and protected profit point. That's not going to happen and is one of the main reasons for the -1.

Here is a nice chart with all the ship related fishing statistics based on the current fishing formula.

I think fishing will ever be doomed because it will never be allowed to be more profitable than vanilla trading : it will never be allowed to carry less risk of loss, even with lesser profits, as that will always be deemed 'unfair'. Which then raises the questions : whats the point of it or any other 'development' which will always be nerfed down to pointlessness for the same reasons?

No-one sets up their account to be a daily loser, be they pirate or merchant or hybrid : if the game will always be biased to vanilla trading or vanilla raiding... why bother doing anything else when it will always leave you worse off?

Those are questions this game needs to answer to itself : what is it trying to be? A strategic game with many paths to glory, in which case those paths have to offer an equitable chance of acheiving glory.. or is it a simple trade and get rich or just hit and get rich affair. Again, if the latter, why waste time with any developments at all? The allowable tools and permitted pathways already exist.

I tend to agree with Danik on this point. Trading and Pirating are the staples of the games original design and all of the "updates or features" that have been added along the way seem to always give way to the former when it comes to profitability but cost 4x as much to establish, so why bother?

I think the concern lies is too much gold being generated to rapidly when several players run trade, goldsmithing, banking, fishing and pirate etc. Well in my eyes this is a valid concern for inflation. The solution, put blocks in place to prevent any one player running all the income streams! That's right, allow several paths to choose for fun and diversity, but put in place a system that once a player picks a path their ability to earn on another is reduced. All buildings and features still require some degree of trade and that needs to remain for many reasons, but if someone opts to be a banker remove access to GS and vice versa.

Give players the ability to become masters of their craft and limit the jack of al master of none.

One pirates opinion... (their are no professionals to seek services from here, everyone can do it all themselves.. #BORING

+1000 Vane.

I think there-in lies the solution.

I like the idea of many different paths to riches and glory as well (with trade being at the root of progressing on those paths), but one man or woman cannot be everything in life and it should not be the case in Avenmora.

Perhaps profession points that each player has a set number of, and building/progressing down a path costs certain points along the way for buildings or upgrades and such.

If a player wanted to be a jack of all trades they could be, but they could only go so far in each. This way player could dabble in each until they find the path they want to pursue, and in order to progress down that path further they have to let go of other things.

Trick would be providing content that would keep things interesting for those who have reached the top of their chosen profession. Perhaps allowing them to back up and alter their professions would be variety enough.

Political/governmental/port influence/plantation options could get complicated and entertaining, and would be the domain of the advanced players/professionals in Avenmora.


On the fishing/fishery issue though, I see it as another potential career path players could follow, and one that could have an part to play in affecting the world of Avenmora while removing it from the trade merchant aspect of the game.

As stated before, I would envision fisheries would not be very profitable early on, but would provide a stable base income in the early game that would be safe from normal pillaging. It would be expensive to upgrade to further levels though, so a player would have to get involved in trading if they wanted to up their fisheries in any reasonable amount of time.

A number that comes to mind- maybe each level one fishery a player owns brings in revenue equal to one average trade route? 25-30k a day perhaps. Level of the fishery and types and number of ships employed would effect profits from there.

Perhaps one option on the cost of fisheries would be to also increase the purchase price of each subsequent fishery, same as it is with officers.

My original point was to deal with the imbalance fishing with trade ships seems to have brought to the game.

But I am glad the idea of creating profession paths in the game came up along the way.

It deserves further consideration.