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an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:24 am
by Maha
Pirate vs merchant vs noble
As much as i like to propose a fully developed idea, this idea is too large to do so.
I hope that the general drift of this proposal is well liked and that a group of willing enthousiasts will help to develop (parts of) this idea for the betterment of the game.
In our game the roles of the noble or merchant is not well developed. This has resulted that these roles are blended into one and thus creating a predictable model “us against them”.

I wil try to develop the three roles a bit by adding role specific boons.
Starting points:
All players should be able to play any role or a mixture of them
All choices should have consequences
role chance has to be possible
Roles :
Pure roles : pirate, merchant and noble.
blended roles: any mix of the three roles.


Boons:
Each pure role will have 6 boons (6 is an arbitrary number) which are beneficial to their role. A boon can be a permission, a reward or an advantage.
the total number of boons one can have is 6 (equal to the number of pure role boons)
the total of boons a player has is based on his ‘score’; boons are granted in steps of 200.000 points, but never more than 6 in total. A score of over 1.2 million serves as a buffer and allows to keep boons related to that score while pursuing boons from another role.

The three roles are somewhat in conflict with each other. This is represented in three scales.
The pirate vs merchant scale (shown as bloodprice vs fame)
the pirate vs noble scale (bloodprice/hostility vs influence) and
The merchant vs noble scale (fame vs influence)

Image the top triangle is the present system where merchant and noble almost overlap. the triangle at the bootom represents this idea.

Limited nations (up to 50 fictious ones will do) will help this proposal. Influence has to be given not only to a port , but to a nation as well. When a player changes his nation he will transfer only 1/3 of his influence to his new nation. This implies that each nation will have a scale to merchants and pirates. (in a similar way as hostilty is recored per nation.) Noble boons are based on that players total influence from all nations.

A players action will influens his place on those scales. Either moving towards one or to the other end.
to obtain boons from other roles a player needs to have a surplus of points in his first role and than build up points for his next set of boons. E.g. I want to have 2 merchant boons and a pirate boon. To get them I first build up over 600.000 fame points and than do pirate stuff to gain bloodprice points. Each bloodprice points will lower an equal amount of fame points (or influence point depending on the action) so, to get the 200.000 bloodprice points for the boon, I will loose 200.000 fame points. In the end I have over 200.000 bloodprice and at least 400.000 fame points. That allows me to switch 1 merchant boon for 1 pirate boon.

Each player has to be careful to keep his scales balanced to his liking. A player who becomes too much a merchant loses his other boons, become too much a noble and etc.

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:12 am
by Captain Jack
I do not get why you want limited nations and how this would help the game.

I have read it before by Haron. I guess it's a Merc idea.

Pardon us as it is not going to happen.

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:20 am
by Grimrock Litless
Dank
-1

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:08 am
by Vane
Captain Jack wrote:I do not get why you want limited nations and how this would help the game.

I have read it before by Haron. I guess it's a Merc idea.

Pardon us as it is not going to happen.


+1

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:16 am
by Haron
Captain Jack wrote:I do not get why you want limited nations and how this would help the game.

I have read it before by Haron. I guess it's a Merc idea.

Pardon us as it is not going to happen.


What Maha writes is his suggestions only. Every player discusses the rules based on their own preferences, of course - this is not a guild thing. Rules discussions are, and should remain, separated from game play.

That said, I think that the game should at least not go further down the path where merchants and politics are closely related, whereas pirates and politics are separated. More options for pirates to be involved in politics would be nice, I think, but at least we should not implement anything that pushes pirates further away from politics, making flying the Jolly Roger the only viable option for pirates is a very bad idea, in my opinion.

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:33 am
by Vane
Haron wrote:
Captain Jack wrote:I do not get why you want limited nations and how this would help the game.

I have read it before by Haron. I guess it's a Merc idea.

Pardon us as it is not going to happen.


What Maha writes is his suggestions only. Every player discusses the rules based on their own preferences, of course - this is not a guild thing. Rules discussions are, and should remain, separated from game play.

That said, I think that the game should at least not go further down the path where merchants and politics are closely related, whereas pirates and politics are separated. More options for pirates to be involved in politics would be nice, I think, but at least we should not implement anything that pushes pirates further away from politics, making flying the Jolly Roger the only viable option for pirates is a very bad idea, in my opinion.



Why? Your not a pirate.

Pirates have their own politics among themselves. The ones in the game have no interest of a pirate. Makes perfect sense to me that merchants are more involved and related in the politics as they are the wealthy. The more wealth you gain, the more influential you become and the more directly involved in politics you will be. Pirates are not nationals and should not be pushed in that direction.

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:43 am
by Haron
Charles Vane wrote:
Haron wrote:
Captain Jack wrote:I do not get why you want limited nations and how this would help the game.

I have read it before by Haron. I guess it's a Merc idea.

Pardon us as it is not going to happen.


What Maha writes is his suggestions only. Every player discusses the rules based on their own preferences, of course - this is not a guild thing. Rules discussions are, and should remain, separated from game play.

That said, I think that the game should at least not go further down the path where merchants and politics are closely related, whereas pirates and politics are separated. More options for pirates to be involved in politics would be nice, I think, but at least we should not implement anything that pushes pirates further away from politics, making flying the Jolly Roger the only viable option for pirates is a very bad idea, in my opinion.



Why? Your not a pirate.

Pirates have their own politics among themselves. The ones in the game have no interest of a pirate. Makes perfect sense to me that merchants are more involved and related in the politics as they are the wealthy. The more wealth you gain, the more influential you become and the more directly involved in politics you will be. Pirates are not nationals and should not be pushed in that direction.


In my eyes, a pirate is defined by his actions, and not by his flag. I disagree with your views on what a pirate should and should not be involved in. "Pirates are not nationals" is your definition. It does not fit my definition, where one can perfectly well be both a pirate and a national.

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:48 am
by Vane
Haron wrote:In my eyes, a pirate is defined by his actions, and not by his flag. I disagree with your views on what a pirate should and should not be involved in. "Pirates are not nationals" is your definition. It does not fit my definition, where one can perfectly well be both a pirate and a national.



Aye defined by their actions, I agree.

Having 100's of ships and trading are by no means the actions of a pirate... more of a merchant or personal navy with bad morals is all.

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 12:09 pm
by Maha
Haron wrote:
Spoiler: show
Charles Vane wrote:
Haron wrote:That said, I think that the game should at least not go further down the path where merchants and politics are closely related, whereas pirates and politics are separated. More options for pirates to be involved in politics would be nice, I think, but at least we should not implement anything that pushes pirates further away from politics, making flying the Jolly Roger the only viable option for pirates is a very bad idea, in my opinion.



Why? Your not a pirate.

Pirates have their own politics among themselves. The ones in the game have no interest of a pirate. Makes perfect sense to me that merchants are more involved and related in the politics as they are the wealthy. The more wealth you gain, the more influential you become and the more directly involved in politics you will be. Pirates are not nationals and should not be pushed in that direction.


In my eyes, a pirate is defined by his actions, and not by his flag. I disagree with your views on what a pirate should and should not be involved in. "Pirates are not nationals" is your definition. It does not fit my definition, where one can perfectly well be both a pirate and a national.


a pure pirate sails under a black flag. yet nations granted licenties to captains in order to plunder ships of other nations. i think the word for these nation-pirates is privateer.

having said that, history or real life is only a guideline not the framework of this game.
in my proposal i allow for special boons. related to the three pure roles. with this proposal all kinds of play are possible. a noble pirate? why not. a pirate merchant? a bit of all? gather the boons you want and see what you can make it work for you. is it not to your liking? allow yourself to lose a boon and work to get another.

with 18 boons available and only 6 to be utilized by a player a lot of options and specializations will be possible.

Re: an idea to develop the three roles further

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:08 pm
by Shadowood
Charles Vane wrote:
Personal navy with bad morals is all.


This is now what I will call myself. :D

"Shadowood what's your play style?"
-well I class myself as having a personal navy with bad morals!

Love it!!