What is Cheaper? MC or Call Leviathan?

[Donald Trump]

Or the cheapest route be to have enough ships ye sink chance be high continually attack an lose to an NPC, level lose ect. Until ye reach yer desired results Savvy?..

I will experiment this with a howker, and post the full results. Others are welcome to as well experiment Vane's idea on getting a 60 pointer

[DezNutz]

Or the cheapest route be to have enough ships ye sink chance be high continually attack an lose to an NPC, level lose ect. Until ye reach yer desired results Savvy?..

This method is great for cheap ships to obtain higher attributes without spending voodoo. The costs will be close to nothing compared to using Master Craftsman, although I don't know why you would want to spend MCs on a howker or cutter.

This method however is extremely risky for certain ships as you are leaving it practically defenseless at a very low level.

I will experiment this with a howker, and post the full results. Others are welcome to as well experiment Vane's idea on getting a 60 pointer

The only useful data this will provide will be how many times this will need to be done to have a LVL 1 ship with 20+ attribute points. Need to do it on at least 3 different Howkers, so you can have a realistic average. This will determine if this is cost effect for more expensive ships.

[Vane]

Hardly vulnerable when doing this with a Sotl.

Put in fleet with 4 lvl 10 cutters. You have lots of ships so NPCs are tough. Move lvl 2 or 3 sotl to the rear, hit NPCs and lose obviously keeping the sotl at lvl 2 or 3. Until your done for the day, then move it to the front position and it's safe. Takes time an won't be done in one day but it is cheaper. Only time it is vulnerable is the 10 minutes you spend losing to NPCs.

Even then.. hardly in danger..

[Haron]

I agree, it's not risky. But does it actually work? I guess it partially depends on whether a ship can have negative points or not. Assuming the chance to get 3, 4 and 5 points is all 1/3 both when gaining and losing a level, this should take a very long time.

After gaining a level and losing it, you have the following probability distribution of gaining / losing points:

-2: 1/9
-1: 2/9
0: 3/9
1: 2/9
2: 1/9

This distribution is the same after the next level. For a total distribution after gaining two levels and losing two levels:

-4: 1/81
-3: 4/81
-2: 10/81
-1: 16/81
0: 19/81
1: 16/81
2: 10/81
3: 4/81
4: 1/81

And so on and so forth. So, under these assumptions, gaining or losing a lot of atts this way is not very probable. It is, of course, possible that the algorithms for attribute gaining/losing is different from what I have assumed - or that the random number generator is not entirely reliable.

[DezNutz]

I agree, it's not risky. But does it actually work? I guess it partially depends on whether a ship can have negative points or not. Assuming the chance to get 3, 4 and 5 points is all 1/3 both when gaining and losing a level, this should take a very long time.

After gaining a level and losing it, you have the following probability distribution of gaining / losing points:

-2: 1/9
-1: 2/9
0: 3/9
1: 2/9
2: 1/9

This distribution is the same after the next level. For a total distribution after gaining two levels and losing two levels:

-4: 1/81
-3: 4/81
-2: 10/81
-1: 16/81
0: 19/81
1: 16/81
2: 10/81
3: 4/81
4: 1/81

And so on and so forth. So, under these assumptions, gaining or losing a lot of atts this way is not very probable. It is, of course, possible that the algorithms for attribute gaining/losing is different from what I have assumed - or that the random number generator is not entirely reliable.

The risk is the same as not having a cheap tail on your fleets. You don't put a SOTL as the last ship in your fleet, you put a cheap ship as the last ship because there is that chance you get attacked via skirmish or voodoo'd and you don't want a really expensive ship to get plundered with ease. To say it isn't risky, is asinine. If it is not risky, run all your fleets with no cheap tail.

Yes, statistically you have a potential gain of zero for using this method. Random chance is the only way to come out with a significant gain or loss. However, compared to the guaranteed rate of gain from a Master Craftsman, the comparative costs is potentially greater.

[Grimrock Litless]

1: 2/9 <--- 9 times

1: 16/81 <--- 81 times


Lets first compair the how much chance to get + 1 point vs MC's 100% to get + 1 point.

Lets say you don't use leviathan but instand, do vs npc to lose so it is lowered.
And the upgrade cost. (Too lazy to go look for a good value) Lets take 1,000,000.
MC cost 30 credit or something, which is 3 mill or so.
60 x 3 = 180 mill
and 81 = 16
1 = 1 mill
60 = 303.75 tries (304) = 304 mill.

I think doing lowing level and then level up and just using MC on even ground. MC would beat it, but cus levia is chance based its more of a luck, I guess.

-4: 1/81 - Infinity (Ignore)
-3: 4/81 - Infinity (Ignore)
-2: 10/81 - Infinity (Ignore)
-1: 16/81 - Infinity (Ignore)
0: 19/81 - Infinity (Ignore)
1: 16/81 - 304 mill
2: 10/81 - 243 mill
3: 4/81 - 405 mill
4: 1/81 - 1215 mill

1: 16/81 - 304 mill
2: 10/81 - 243 mill
3: 4/81 - 405 mill
4: 1/81 - 1215 mill
Take this 4, find average = 541.75 (542)

And I didn't even take the bad ones and that its cheaper to level up the ship for MC first.

(V3ry S00ry f04 baD ma5h.)