Imprison wrote:Rarity: Rare
Turns cost: 12
Type: Player / Enchantment / 72hours

Description:
Choose a player that has victimized you with voodoo or plundered any of your fleets in the last 72hours.

Target player cannot use any voodoo.

Target player must have less than 1/10th of your fleet total worth or curse cast will fail.

If it is deemed too powerful, then we can increase the requirements (like 3 voodoo or 3 plunders in last 24/48 hours or also include a ship count, ie 50).
It hurts pirates and/or smaller players but only through an active player that HAS the card. Of course, a friend can only save him by dispelling it.

As it is now, a well established player can only lose when attacked by a pirate. We need some weapons to at least inflict damage and not only that. In real case scenario, we would be able to imprison or execute them, right?

Torture wrote:Rarity: Rare
Turns cost: 8
Type: Player / Enchantment / 72hours

Description:
Choose an Imprisoned player.

Target player loses 1 turn per 10 minutes.
You earn every turn lost in this way.

Following the Imprison card, this is actually a card that will allow players to profit from a small enemy.

Execute wrote:Rarity: Ultra Rare
Turns Cost: 180
Type: Instant / Player

Description:
Choose a player that has been Tortured for 70 straight hours (must have a that long enchantment on).

As an extra cost, pay 10 000 000 gold coins.

Execute target player (player is entirely removed from the game).

Only his treasure should be left behind for lucky finders afterwards. If player chooses to restart, he should start from scratch.

Not an easy way to execute someone, but doable. An alternative requirement would be to require a total torture time of at least 180 hours in a character's lifetime plus the requirement for 70 straight hours. We could also remove 1 hour from the total tally of every player, per day. This way, in 180 days of no torture it will be like you have never been tortured. Perhaps torture is a strong word but I think that is in par with real case scenario.

All executed players should be mentioned in Global Events and a Graveyard page should be created in their memorial. The executor name and guild names should be also mentioned, as well as time of the execution.

Finally, besides the option to directly oppose a small opponent and purge him it also adds the option to end a war with someone/guild (kill count anyone?).

Thoughts?

+1, the system may require tweaks, but the idea of finality in battle is awesome. It actually allows someone's defeat, not just time to rebuild and cast voodoo without anything to lose. I think it does hinder easy pirating but also makes it possible to take out bigger players adding more realism and makes people consider the consequences of their actions. If someone is taken out this way, I think their should be a forum post for the fallen. New versions of the player should be a fresh name and they should have to join a different guild with fresh ideas. This would prevent revenge characters and offer new options unavailable before they were defeated. Perhaps they also should get five times as much starting resources and ships, it would be a reward for loyalty in returning and performing all the training missions again. However if they act in a manner consistent with their old character they should be banned in my opinion. It could be very interesting.

+1/2 Honestly the game would suffer from the execute card, less players = less money. And if a well known pirate gets erased, how would the reputation be dealt with? This card is WAY TOO OVERPOWERED.

The other ones are fine, just make their turn cost a good 2 or 3 times more and it would be a little more fair.

those cards are so broken....

that would change the power creep dynamic the same was ambush did. only it's 3 cards more valuable then mindbar, even leviathan, MC, EJ ... remember how much more valuable a mindbar was 6 months ago?

that last card especially so. if u seriously think its a sound idea to allow someone else to directly use money to destroy someone else's financial and personal investment. that's going to have a serious chilling effect...

also, im going to point out that u fashioned a card specifically targeted at an Esteemed Ally who happens to have stolen millions from ur guild in the last week... and proposing it using ur legendary authority to vindicate it.

im just throwing out that thats a mighty powermove... "u kno id like to be able to execute Sir Stenley Roise, screw that guy there should be a new voodoo card"

the privileged to buy another players ban is counter-intuitive to investing time or money into the game. have fun w/o me if something this ridiculous ever happens.

Perhaps if some did not resort to the vilest of tactics others would not wish to destroy them. This is not a bank, your investment is not guaranteed, and neither is mine, or any other. Its a game, the point of game is to win and lose, some who play the game poorly or make too many enemies should be able to lose utterly, we are not here to protect investments, most are here to enjoy themselves, and sometimes defeating someone who is a lasting problem and beyond reason is quite entertaining. Hypothetically speaking of course.

the reason why this would be a bad idea, is the same reason why u and sparrow would like it. but selling something like that to players completely debalances the power spectrum in the game, it would even be debalancing if it were free, the game was already power choaking on leviathan, to add, "ban target player from the game" is absolutely absurd. that would be appropriate in a game where an account would only contain 24 hours worth of data. for something that people pay or play into, it's completely debalancing. thanks for making my point

I'm flattered.

Well, I have read very carefully all posts here. I will try to organize them and then comment them.
YOU CAN SKIP TO THE END OF THE POST, for the short-version verdict.

Black Sparrow wrote:As it is now, a well established player can only lose when attacked by a pirate.

-While this is true, there is more to it. A pirate also consumes resources to make it happen (voodoo at the very least). In fact, he exchanges his curses for your gold which an established player can make out of thin air.

Black Sparrow wrote: We need some weapons to at least inflict damage and not only that. In real case scenario, we would be able to imprison or execute them, right?

-This is your strongest argument. You are full right here and we are entitled to provide just this to EVERY player in the game. If the player base wishes such a mechanism, we will comply. Allow me to say though, that your suggestion for execution is too harsh and a bit one sided.

Continuing on your ideas, you have chosen really cool names. However, you have been a bit harsh on requirements. I am commenting:

1)Imprison

I would prefer an extra cost for gold coins. This card alone is not that harsh but as Majesty said, it is already over-powerful. Instead, we could consider using the already existing Chains of Justice card. Add 2 further arguments in it:
-Target player that has 5 or more Chains of Justice cannot plunder anyone at all.
-Target Player that has 10 or more Chains of Justice cannot cast any voodoo on OTHER players.

There you have the same effect with Imprison in a more balanced way that requires teamwork. Still I believe that this is not the right way to go.

2)Torture

The idea of taking turns is a good one. Although it could lead to exploitation, we are in position to easily check for such cases. Again though, it is a bit overpowered. It needs to be less powerful. For example, 24hours instead of 72. I can understand why you proposed many hours; you want to get rid entirely from the player but this should not be this easy or come entirely from voodoo.

For example, if the defending players had escorts in their trading fleets, they would not be an easy target for any small pirate. In fact, they would be left alone. The pirate is an opportunist, he found the weak spot and he took advantage of it. If everyone had their ships protected, the pirate would not be able to survive (like it eventually happened). Now you want to execute him, I know, but this is not a way.

3)Execute

While the idea of fatality, as Rolando said, is very alluring, again this is not the right way to do it, in my humble opinion. For example, I would definitely include that defender has NO ships left requirement in such a card (or else how you found and executed him?). Generally speaking,while it is not early to discuss fatality ideas, it does not mean we are near the implementation day of such. I will gladly continue this discussion at another topic specifically about it.

Rolando wrote:Perhaps if some did not resort to the vilest of tactics others would not wish to destroy them. This is not a bank, your investment is not guaranteed, and neither is mine, or any other. Its a game, the point of game is to win and lose, some who play the game poorly or make too many enemies should be able to lose utterly, we are not here to protect investments, most are here to enjoy themselves, and sometimes defeating someone who is a lasting problem and beyond reason is quite entertaining. Hypothetically speaking of course.

I found these words pretty wise. This is why I am not denying the fatality idea already. But should it come from a voodoo in this way? I think not. This is what we are primarily discussing here. Would the card be okay if it also had the extra requirements Black Sparrow mentioned AND the no ship requirement I added? Perhaps. Is this the right time to forward it? I am not convinced it is.

The reason of my scepticism is that these solutions do not actually solve the initial problem.

Rolando wrote:New versions of the player should be a fresh name and they should have to join a different guild with fresh ideas. This would prevent revenge characters and offer new options unavailable before they were defeated.

You cannot instruct players on what they will do. If they want to create revenge characters, they will. So then we will get a new problem like;
-The cost of execution is too high, reduce it please.
or
-I am consuming too many resources to bring someone to execution while he can come back and resume the same within a week.

What I am trying to tell here is that;
-Execution if ever implemented, must be costly. If it is costly, it already fails the initial purpose.
-If it is not costly, we literally throw away a specific game tactic and this is something I would want to do. Moreover, a non-costy execution could create chaos and completely unbalance the game.

So, my initial verdict, in-short, is that these ideas are not going to solve your problem. Therefore I cannot approve them.

If you still need some punish tools, I am here to discuss your ideas. Just find something that will actually work well. As for a way to profit from pirates, I don't think we will be able to find any, although I am amazed by the idea to go for the turns.

Hmm, not sure if i'd go for them or not, first 2 have potential, but i'd be against the third one, it allows to much devastation to be inflicted, and if used smartly could kill any player or guild, we'll get to that...

->Imprison
Kind of like the idea of it, although you use the word victimized, which to me says the person must have cast a minimum of X voodoo, or performed X attack on you or a combination of the both, before there a valid cast target, say 10-20 attacks in Y time window, or 5-10(negative) voodoo in Y time window.

It allows an unhindered retaliatory strike if they don't have outside aid to remove it, or you can effectively knock them out of commission for a few days as punishment, if they had large fleets you'd retaliate in kind, if they have 1 fleet, imprison them for a few days so they can't act, However, if you have large fleets, get imprisoned and no ones on to remove it, your a nice big meal for any and all pirates till aid shows up, 2 sides to every coin.

->Torture... Would probably re-name it...Maybe... Forced Confession, we all know what it implies.
Only effective if the person your casting it on doesn't have aid from else where to remove it and the prior curse, it means while your target is out of commission you can reap back a small benefit from them, not in gold or ships, but in the ability to build ships faster, kinda works as well because if you were imprisoned you would be unable to act, so turn generation would logically stop. However, your also completely inhibiting there access to there treasure cache, meaning while your beating there fleets, they are running out of gold, they can't dig more up, and you will capture there ships, even though they may have millions buried away, imagine if a big player fell victim to that, 2 sides.

->Execute
No. The potential for devastation is to great, the ability to permanently remove any player from the game at will, because they attacked you a few to many times is to much power to be given to players...

An idea could be that it either 'kills' the player and they instantly re-spawn or it lasts a duration say 72 hours, the only things lost are held turns and gold and it resets your credit purchase tick to 12h so you can't just quickly buy some, maybe the player who cast it on you gets the turns and gold you 'drop on death', and maybe the person who cast it on you also gets a clue to where your treasure is hidden, maybe an easier chance to find your stash of gold.

...However if any of these cards where to be introduced then a lot would need to be considered about them prior to implementation, as if used smartly with other cards, you could destroy someone far easier and far more effectively than you can now...

There is the potential for bad things to happen...

While it would take preparation if you could acquire enough of these cards and enough Mindbars.
You could go to war with another guild, make sure they use a nice amount of voodoo on you, from all there members if you can, nice big shinny war, then cast Imprison on all members of there guild that had used voodoo, put a Mindbar over the top for safe measure, and if any members didn't participate with voodoo, just confusion and Mindbar them, you've effectively knocked the entire guild out of action for 72 hours, you could then torture them and if all 3 cards were implemented Execute every member that had voodoo'd in the war, without external help from another guild, your dead in the water, literally... Now logically the people using voodoo in war would be the ones with the main caches, stacks of destructive and defensive voodoo, the ones you would most eagerly want to knock out of commission, and if possible, remove all together, if there unable to cast for 72hr period, your relying on the members with the smaller caches that didn't cast a large amount of war voodoo, having enough cures and turns to remove the Mindbar and all the other voodoo on you, before your executed and thus removed from the game permanently...
While what i suggest would take time and planning, if executed well enough, could result in the complete destruction of any guild in 72hrs.

Also, while it's generally unsafe to be an unguilded solo player anyway, these would make it more so, if a pirate attacked you and you retaliated with voodoo, he could cast imprison on you and spend 3 days looting you at will, unless you could find another player to help you out... Could even decide to execute you for the sheer fun of it, and because you decided to be an unguilded trader, just sailing the seas, there aint a damn thing you can do about it...

The guilty would find a way round it, the innocent would bleed...