Plundering fights

[Most Lee Harmless]

Aye, its odd how the balances have changed : getting your first SotL was once a badge of progress : it was culmination of months of work and the acquisition of skills and game knowledge. Now I see players of just a few weeks who sail SotL fleets that would once have been considered the prime power fleet of a veteran. My first SotL came off a TW : she was a 48att and she was a terror. How good? Well, she put me top of the win ratios and thats not an easy climb. Now, she would be distinctly average, maybe third slot at best. Even maxed out now, she would still be average and with techs, etc, no great wonder at all. That's a shame for once a ships name meant something in the games lore and history, now, mere numbers or 'Unnamed' suffices for they are all much the same.

The way to create interesting battles between power fleets is to create choices for the owners : more for this means less for that : Stan is right : if both can max them all, both will, eventually, and then its down to chance to decide the winner. So, Stans notion of a higher attribute limit for each sector but maximum attributes per ship being capped so you cant have the perfect maxed out ship is sound. Then the owner must make choices, must make compromises, and in those choices and compromises lies the necessary diversity that creates uncertain outcomes.

Then those who get it right will create names and legends, which we need a bit more of here.

[Banger]

Aye, its odd how the balances have changed : getting your first SotL was once a badge of progress : it was culmination of months of work and the acquisition of skills and game knowledge. Now I see players of just a few weeks who sail SotL fleets that would once have been considered the prime power fleet of a veteran. My first SotL came off a TW : she was a 48att and she was a terror. How good? Well, she put me top of the win ratios and thats not an easy climb. Now, she would be distinctly average, maybe third slot at best. Even maxed out now, she would still be average and with techs, etc, no great wonder at all. That's a shame for once a ships name meant something in the games lore and history, now, mere numbers or 'Unnamed' suffices for they are all much the same.

The way to create interesting battles between power fleets is to create choices for the owners : more for this means less for that : Stan is right : if both can max them all, both will, eventually, and then its down to chance to decide the winner. So, Stans notion of a higher attribute limit for each sector but maximum attributes per ship being capped so you cant have the perfect maxed out ship is sound. Then the owner must make choices, must make compromises, and in those choices and compromises lies the necessary diversity that creates uncertain outcomes.

Then those who get it right will create names and legends, which we need a bit more of here.

+1.

[Sir Thalius Hayle]

+1

[Captain Jack]

There are several inconsistent statement in this help topic. This happens because you take as fundamental some wrong factors.

For example, for long players do debate whether Favorable Winds card does affect battles or not. Well, since it is a PvP issue, I think I can safely reveal that it does not. We try to describe very accurately every card mechanism in their description; Favorable Winds card says that ships travel faster. It does not mention ship speed. Perhaps we should be more responsive to clearing out card effects from now on as I feel now that some might be discouraged upon hearing this clear out. As for why FW does not affect battles as a design option; We figured that obliging fighting players to cast a lot of voodoo to get the edge is not a nice option into the game.

As for die rolls for who fights first, this is the actual favorable winds simulation in battle. At the start of the battle (note: not per round, per battle) between 2 ships, the die is used (among other things) to determine who fires first. This die is the simulation of wind that some player have pointed out that should be incorporated. Well, it is already incorporated through this method and it is quite effective. I find this fair. What we could do to improve this is to include a text in the battle that informs you of the result. For example, the player who got the higher roll would get the message "The wind blows favorably for Queen Elisabeth", where Queen Elisabeth is one of the two ships fighting. Of course, Queen Elisabeth could be a slow ship and still not fire first, despite gaining this advantage. It's fair game to display this piece of info from now on though, on detailed battle. If you like this idea, simply create 5 different messages for this and we will add them right away; our non-native language is a serious hinder for this.

From there after, all dies used in battle (and generally in the game), simulate events. This is a simulation strategy game after all.
If we weren't a simulation strategy, we would not use dies. Then, ships would always output x damage and could take y damage. Then quantity would matter or who fires first (still a design decision - at chess for example, it only matters who fires first, this one wins).

Moving further, someone said that design is not good. I could not disagree more. The design has proven itself numerous times and if you test it to higher levels, it really scales exceptionally well. The very fact that you can get different results from two evenly matched fleets is a proof of the good design and not the opposite.

At the ship specialization suggestion, at the top post the proposal is to change ship maximum level from 10 to 20. You might want to check it out here, along with all the details:
http://www.piratesglory.com/forums/view ... ?f=5&t=579

[Shadowood]

Thanks for clearing that up CJ. I have had it wrong for 2 years.

And I think adding the Winds message would be nice.

[fullfathomfive]

Since I was the one who mentioned ship design I'll provide more information regarding my reason for the statement. I believe I said "game ship design is drastically wrong in perceived ability vs design". I have no doubt though that what the game designed ship delivers provides the results you describe.

Basically increased displacement of a vessel has a effect on speed. As a example ice boats can sail up to five times the speed of the wind. Ship drag is reduced traveling over the ice vs traveling in water, along with additional lift which can be provided by the sails. As a ship moves through the water the water must be pushed out of the way to allow the ship to move forward. Increasing a ships displacement in water or a ship traveling deeper in the water, requires more water needing to be pushed out of the way due to the increase in the ships displacement. Increased resistance and friction on the ship moving through the water are the resulting resisting forces in play here. Without additional sail volume or additional sails designed to promote lift to compensate for the forces in play, ship speed will be reduced.

In PG game ships add Iron Scantling for defensive purposes, this additional iron weight increases the displacement of similar designed ships in the water when compared to non Iron Scatling ships. The additional displacement allows the forces at play to decrease the speed of the Iron Scating equipped ship through the water vs non equipped ships. Without changes to sails, these Iron Scatling equipped ships are slower than their counterparts due to the additional iron weight added. Sails can compensate some for the increased speed decrease due to the increased displacement, however in game there is no provision for this as yet. I remember mentioning sail maker here in the form when the various elements of the academy were discussed and perhaps in some way sails can be designed into the mix. Since we don't in game utilize water depth, "Squat Effect" isn't a force in play here but it's a interesting read on the effect of a ship if you choose to search the information.

[Stan Rogers]

As for die rolls for who fights first, this is the actual favorable winds simulation in battle. At the start of the battle (note: not per round, per battle) between 2 ships, the die is used (among other things) to determine who fires first. This die is the simulation of wind that some player have pointed out that should be incorporated. Well, it is already incorporated through this method and it is quite effective. I find this fair. What we could do to improve this is to include a text in the battle that informs you of the result. For example, the player who got the higher roll would get the message "The wind blows favorably for Queen Elisabeth", where Queen Elisabeth is one of the two ships fighting. Of course, Queen Elisabeth could be a slow ship and still not fire first, despite gaining this advantage. It's fair game to display this piece of info from now on though, on detailed battle. If you like this idea, simply create 5 different messages for this and we will add them right away; our non-native language is a serious hinder for this.

I am afraid I don't quite agree on your analysis here CJ as a wise captain would check the wind direction before he commits to battle and not after the fact.
As far as placing a descriptive narrative in the detailed battle report it may as well say "The Captain caught dysentery and was unable to command his vessel in true form." or "It seems the enemy ship received conflicting orders from a parrot and you were able to defeat it easily."
Fair ?... no argument from me but simulation, it falls short.