TRUMP 2020!

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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Lachlan » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:20 pm

Meliva wrote:
Kim Jong Un wrote:
really lol? You said maybe we shouldn't be as involved in international affairs. I was responding to that and you think I said you weren't involved in international relations. I know you spend a lot of money on other stuff since you guys have a lot of money in the first place. I think you did make it worse in places such as my examples except for Iraq as I said I don't know much about that conflict. In Vietnam you definitely made it worse, Agent Orange dropped on Vietnam is still causing deformities in newborn babies, disabilities rose and you basically killed their economy since you bombed all their infrastructure. I get that it was war but still if you guys were getting that desperate and loosing then the war was basically unwinnable. Afghanistan still has the Taliban there, the corruption is widespread there and it is still a third world country. Country building is hard though so I get why you left there. You guys might be the most powerful conventional fighting force in the world but against Guerrilla troops in irregular and unconventional warfare you guys are mediocre at best. Your way of fighting a unconventional war with conventional tactics does not work, prolongs the war and eventually you loose destabilizing the country. Follow and copy smaller countries tactics like Australia's tactics or British tactics because our troops are better at that kind of warfare. Anyway point is your points aren't exactly valid against most of mine since I meant offensive wars not defensive ones like if South Korea gets attacked etc. Also Korea was a more conventional war since there was a set border and the North Koreans came from the North. Also there were British, Commonwealth and American units already in or near Korea so it would have been easy to help since you were in the general vicinity of the war


I did not say we should not be involved in ANY international affairs, I said we should be LESS involved. I don't like how much money we send to global organizations and other countries, or how often we get involved in foreign conflicts. I don't think we should become a hermit nation either though.

It's true, we didn't do so well in Vietnam. But like you said-they used unconventional tactics, and ultimately as much damage as we may have done, we could have done far more and won the war. It also didn't help that the Vietnamese who we were fighting for didn't want to fight at all for the most part.

Also, there were French forces in Vietnam. They also failed. Also, great military and tactics you Aussies got, when your military LITERALLY failed to handle Emus. Easily a force for the ages :D. Hilarious you want to claim you are better at small tactics when you couldn't handle oversized birds :D

It's also funny to me that you decided to ignore my comment on your idiotic point that political leaders should be legally obliged to listen to experts. Again, at that point, what's the point in getting political leaders? Might as well just put these experts in charge since they would be legally able to command our leaders.

Also China would eat you for breakfast without outside help. They could island hop if need be, taking control of the islands between you guys. Also, how are you going to use guerrilla warfare? Most of your population is on the coasts-they could just bomb them into oblivion with ships and planes, and drive you into the desert that makes up the center. You are really biased to just how good your country really is honestly. Hate to break it to you-it's not as great as you seem to think it is.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with global relations. That is what I said myself but you confused me because you tried to argue the same thing and I'm not sure why. We couldn't handle birds because Emu's are very fast and we were using primitive machine guns on vehicles that were not designed to mount a machine gun and shoot. I am also aware that the French tried before you guys, I simply decided not to mention it since the end result was basically the same. We are also better at Guerrilla warfare and our troops in Vietnam were optimized for that. We had similar weapons to your troops and equipment and we had far better results and morale in Australian units were higher. I literally also said basically the same thing about island hopping how if they attacked southwards like Japan did and got a base in range of Australia then they could win. Really though we could stage Guerrilla warfare for a bit, not that long though because we would run out of water. Way down South would be relatively safe and you would need a shit ton of planes and bombs to be able to bomb the entire coastline effectively where most of the population is even if you focused on just the East Coast cities. I am biased to Australia I guess but they would have to have a wondrous amount of medium to long distance planes to be able to hit anywhere in Australia at any time. As I said also before though managing to hold all that ground though is impossible, that is why the Japanese did not try to invade Australia and due to other reasons. I mean we are not a major military power but the smaller the Defense force (if it's a wealthy country) the more elite it will be like in Germany the Weimar Republics army was small and elite.

I did not respond to leaders listening to medical experts because I couldn't find a good way to explain what I mean because what I mean is a bit different to how you interpret it but now your saying it's idiotic even though I'm sure your smart enough to know I probably don't mean what you said. Anyway my original point about that still stands that this pandemic has shown a possible weak spot in how your country manages against Diseases/viruses.
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Lachlan » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:22 pm

Meliva wrote:Yes, I will admit that australia isn't a terrible country, or 3rd world or anything like that. It has a lot going for it. Isolated, so not many threats, hell China is the only major one really, beautiful land, a very unique array of animals(granted many are deadly, which is a negative) pretty good tech and well developed.

Wouldn't be my first choice of places to live in, mainly due to the deadly critters, but it's easily top ten of best places to live in in my opinion. It's a good place. I just think Kim is overestimating it's strength and it's benefits. I mean I understand wanting to be proud of your home, I am happy with mine, but It's also important to understand that you shouldn't be blind and biased to your homes faults.

I don't think the USA is a perfect place, we definitely have problems. I do think it's a great place to live, and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but I do admit we have our faults. Same as any nation really.

Edit-also the Emu war comment I made was more of a joke. Their military has come a long way since then, but that incident will always be a funny bit of history for me :D

when I first read and saw a youtube video about it I thought it was a joke and fake like April fools or something even though we don't have that here. Then I found out it was actually real and I got kinda confused
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Meliva » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:46 pm

You guys went in after the US and France both gave up. You had the benefit of learning from our mistakes, and the benefit of going into a conflict fresh while your enemies had already been fighting for quite some time.

It's like bragging about how you beat a pro boxer in a fight, AFTER he had 2 fights in a row with 2 other fighters while you watched.

China wouldn't NEED to hold your entire landmass. A ton of it is worthless desert to them, and depending on what they want from attacking might make holding land pointless. What if they just want to kick your arses? What if they want to force Australia to give better trade deals? Sure if their goal was to conquer your land and take over you could give them hell. But if they can force your government to surrender to a deal, then they could just smash your defenses, then just bomb your cities until you give up.

Also Japan in ww2 was mostly focused on expanding, so yes Australia would have been a poor choice as it would be hard to hold. Now would china want to hold Australia? Maybe. But if their goal is just to get money, or resources they needn't hold it. Also smaller defense forces, even if more elite, can be crushed by numbers. Look at ants for instance. Get enough ants' and they could kill you or me even.

China could just continuously bomb your cities until you surrender. They wouldn't even need to get troops onto land honestly.

Also, you said it's a flaw that our leaders are not legally obliged to listen and obey to experts. Where the hell on earth do ANY nation have it legally required for political leaders to listen to experts of any field? Because that sort of law, is just idiotic. Why bother electing leaders if they are legally required to listen to experts and obey them? Why not just make experts run the country?
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Lachlan » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:08 pm

Meliva wrote:You guys went in after the US and France both gave up. You had the benefit of learning from our mistakes, and the benefit of going into a conflict fresh while your enemies had already been fighting for quite some time.

It's like bragging about how you beat a pro boxer in a fight, AFTER he had 2 fights in a row with 2 other fighters while you watched.

China wouldn't NEED to hold your entire landmass. A ton of it is worthless desert to them, and depending on what they want from attacking might make holding land pointless. What if they just want to kick your arses? What if they want to force Australia to give better trade deals? Sure if their goal was to conquer your land and take over you could give them hell. But if they can force your government to surrender to a deal, then they could just smash your defenses, then just bomb your cities until you give up.

Also Japan in ww2 was mostly focused on expanding, so yes Australia would have been a poor choice as it would be hard to hold. Now would china want to hold Australia? Maybe. But if their goal is just to get money, or resources they needn't hold it. Also smaller defense forces, even if more elite, can be crushed by numbers. Look at ants for instance. Get enough ants' and they could kill you or me even.

China could just continuously bomb your cities until you surrender. They wouldn't even need to get troops onto land honestly.

Also, you said it's a flaw that our leaders are not legally obliged to listen and obey to experts. Where the hell on earth do ANY nation have it legally required for political leaders to listen to experts of any field? Because that sort of law, is just idiotic. Why bother electing leaders if they are legally required to listen to experts and obey them? Why not just make experts run the country?

we went in literally a month or 2 after you guys sent in combat units and we had a military supervisor team just like you guys in there beforehand. The US way of fighting is just simply ineffective compared to our way of fighting them. Like we basically secured the province we were responsible for but we didn't have the numbers to do more. Yes they could bomb but it would still be relatively hard to do it really effectively.

I said it was a flaw after I said there is a weakness in your system. I didn't say make it a law. I said they should listen to experts more. What I mean is a bit different to what you think but I can't explain it and by saying that I was hinting hey maybe stop saying that's idiotic when I said I'm not sure how to explain it. I'm also aware that a small defense force can be crushed by a larger less elite and equipped defense force, no need to tell me that.
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Dmanwuzhere » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:23 pm

australia was no major threat in vietnam the best battle used most often attributed to australia is long tan but us soldiers had tons of circumstances where they came through shining but just like australia we all came home defeated
you can research the why and there are several reasons most of which were outside the soldiers control

but say what you will about us soldiers but at the end of the day our special forces are utilized in crises everywhere
i have yet to hear australia say they will go get bin laden or any target with their special forces

while i dont take anything from any soldier as they can only fight as well as the mind leading them
you could drop 100 of anyones crack soldiers in the middle of the desert with 5 snipers hidden somewhere and watch the slaughter

battles are determined more often than not by the leaders choices so take your aussie snobbery and go into the bush yourself instead
of trying to determine how your soldiers are better

show me a thousand of any armed forces members who can catch a nuke if you cant they are all ill prepared and even ;)
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Argo » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:12 pm

Kim - I have more to add but Im stuck here for a sec_

"that is why the Japanese did not try to invade Australia and due to other reasons." - WHAT?
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Argo » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:39 pm

kIM...Our soldiers are good at guerilla warfare yes but as part of a much bigger team. We could not hold our own trying to hit and run on a massive invading force within Australia. The picture in my head makes me laugh out loud!

I'm not sure why you think long range missiles are the only form of possible attack? How far is Indonesia from Darwin? lol Also attack can be many forms.

The great Emu debacle - lol - well as Mel said, not a fair example...lol funny tho.


"like April fools or something even though we don't have that here. " - you sure you actually live here?

We should listen to our experts and go from there with any decision making. But one must consider progress proves time and time again through research and advancements that often our original ideas are entirely wrong. eg - eggs/chocolate/milk are bad for you....screen time is bad for your kids...or yes...not long ago they thought the earth was flat - (some still do which I find very odd indeed)...the point being...the more we learn the less we know...and the more we need to discover. Listening to 'experts', yes. Complying with and implementing what they say because they are "an expert". No way.

(Believe it or not - I have some things I can do regarded as 'expert' but I still make mistakes and I would never assume to know it all and have all the answers bc someone declared me an expert!). I am willing to add to my knowledge tho and take the path of least resistance if I can find it that is-lol

You have to look at history. What I'm saying is true. Advancements reveal misunderstandings or erroneous thinking. It happens every day all the time in all areas of research, especially medicine.

I agree with dman. Australia is little brother or cousin or whatever - as I said...we are good at what we do. We just wouldn't have the numbers to go alone. Thats what alliances are for.
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby The Lamb » Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:24 am

So there was a huge Jews for Trump Parade in NYC. Left wing protestors showed up and started throwing eggs, rocks and yelled slurs, then started fighting with some of the parade participants.

So my question, blue, huge, bigote ... were your comrades being anti-Semitic and do you think hate crimes were committed?
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Lachlan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:25 am

Argo wrote:Kim - I have more to add but Im stuck here for a sec_

"that is why the Japanese did not try to invade Australia and due to other reasons." - WHAT?

because Australia was large and it did not have enough troops to attack Australia since they were in a stalemate in China and the US was reorganizing and starting to push back once they got to Papua New Guinea
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Re: TRUMP 2020!

Postby Lachlan » Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:27 am

Argo wrote:kIM...Our soldiers are good at guerilla warfare yes but as part of a much bigger team. We could not hold our own trying to hit and run on a massive invading force within Australia. The picture in my head makes me laugh out loud!

I'm not sure why you think long range missiles are the only form of possible attack? How far is Indonesia from Darwin? lol Also attack can be many forms.

The great Emu debacle - lol - well as Mel said, not a fair example...lol funny tho.


"like April fools or something even though we don't have that here. " - you sure you actually live here?

We should listen to our experts and go from there with any decision making. But one must consider progress proves time and time again through research and advancements that often our original ideas are entirely wrong. eg - eggs/chocolate/milk are bad for you....screen time is bad for your kids...or yes...not long ago they thought the earth was flat - (some still do which I find very odd indeed)...the point being...the more we learn the less we know...and the more we need to discover. Listening to 'experts', yes. Complying with and implementing what they say because they are "an expert". No way.

(Believe it or not - I have some things I can do regarded as 'expert' but I still make mistakes and I would never assume to know it all and have all the answers bc someone declared me an expert!). I am willing to add to my knowledge tho and take the path of least resistance if I can find it that is-lol

You have to look at history. What I'm saying is true. Advancements reveal misunderstandings or erroneous thinking. It happens every day all the time in all areas of research, especially medicine.

I agree with dman. Australia is little brother or cousin or whatever - as I said...we are good at what we do. We just wouldn't have the numbers to go alone. Thats what alliances are for.

I see what you mean with everything but we don't really have April fools at least in Victoria where I live.
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