Biden 2020

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Re: Biden 2020

Postby Lachlan » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:19 am

Meliva wrote:I doubt you're much younger then me. I'm only 27-though I grew up with a dad old as dirt, he could tell you he remembered when burgers were only a nickel, gas was about 15 cents a gallon, and for one whole dollar you could go to the picture show, get a large candy bar, some popcorn, a soda and have some change. Spent so much time with him I think it aged me mentally :D.

It doesn't help that often times the loudest folks are the ones with the worst ideas. So many people have lately seemed to just expect that certain things should be free, and easy to access etc. when ultimately life isn't simple, nor fair, if it was, we wouldn't need to propose any plans to make lives better or at least it would be far easier and simpler.

I'm sure the other people playing this game are a bit older in their thirties. It just pains me when adults say we are communists and want a communist takeover and all that bullshit
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby Meliva » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:26 am

Again, a lot of very loud young folk really love shouting about how great socialism/communism is, and how we should adopt it, then when asked about all the failed attempts at such a nation almost always go "well that wasn't the right kind".

History, is by far one of the GREATEST teachers mankind could ever ask for. It's very important to learn from it. A good reason why older folks tend to talk down and lecture the younger ones is that the older folks have often times LITERALLY been thinking, living, and learning for double, sometimes triple your lifetime. Too many young folk think they know better, or that they can make something work, despite older folks telling them that, no, they don't know better, and no, they can't. There are exceptions sure, but experience is a very powerful learning tool. Old people are old for a reason-they were smart, lucky, and strong enough to make it to old age.
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby Lachlan » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:43 am

Meliva wrote:Again, a lot of very loud young folk really love shouting about how great socialism/communism is, and how we should adopt it, then when asked about all the failed attempts at such a nation almost always go "well that wasn't the right kind".

History, is by far one of the GREATEST teachers mankind could ever ask for. It's very important to learn from it. A good reason why older folks tend to talk down and lecture the younger ones is that the older folks have often times LITERALLY been thinking, living, and learning for double, sometimes triple your lifetime. Too many young folk think they know better, or that they can make something work, despite older folks telling them that, no, they don't know better, and no, they can't. There are exceptions sure, but experience is a very powerful learning tool. Old people are old for a reason-they were smart, lucky, and strong enough to make it to old age.

socialism I've heard people saying is good but not communism
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby Leo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:18 pm

Yes, I would definitely have problems if this country adopted communism, but I probably wouldn't complain much with socialism. I do think that some ideas should be taken from them and implemented into American-capitalism, but I'm not for either of them full-on.
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby Leo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:03 pm

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Last edited by Leo on Fri May 26, 2023 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby William one eye » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:15 pm

Blue mustache wrote:Yes, I would definitely have problems if this country adopted communism, but I probably wouldn't complain much with socialism. I do think that some ideas should be taken from them and implemented into American-capitalism, but I'm not for either of them full-on.


Pure socialism.

Does this sound good to you.
Everyone works for the government under authoritarian control.
Every one has a job because the goverment makes you work.
Ideally everyone is equal because they should all contribute equally. No need to strive for better than what you are born into.
Because it nakes no difference in how you wi live.

"Production For Use, Not For Profit
In a socialist system the people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically controlled public agencies, cooperatives, or other collective groups. The primary goal of economic activity is to provide the necessities of life, including food, shelter, health care, education, child care, cultural opportunities, and social services."

Source
socialist party USA



Communism. How to manage socislism.

"The Road to Socialism USA is the Program of the Communist Party USA"

"We must also struggle against left sectarianism, a form of utopianism which claims that socialism can be achieved without engaging in the mass economic and political struggles necessary to raise working-class and socialist consciousness, without building a united mass working-class movement.

Our party claims no monopoly on wisdom or on Marxism. We seek to work with all who are genuinely interested in building united mass movements—those on the Left and Center, all who participate in progressive social activism and working-class organization. There have been instances in some countries where more than one organization saw themselves as proponents of socialism. In most cases, these organizations eventually merged with the Communist Party or developed a strong working coalition with the shared aim of winning and constructing socialism. Only Communists, in coalition with mass movements and other working-class parties, have overthrown capitalism and are building socialism."


" Communism will be a society without exploitation, without social classes, without war, without constant attacks on our shared environment, and without any coercive apparatus, and with only such administration required to meet people’s needs, "

"The appeal of a communist society is a response to the real human needs of the masses of people. Communism will enable people to set aside worries about health care and education, about losing their livelihood and their dignity. Communism will eliminate the economic insecurity of the masses of working people. Instead, it will offer us the opportunity to reach our full human potential."


"Racism remains one of the most potent weapons to divide the working class. Institutionalized racism provides hundreds of billions in extra profits for the capitalists every year due to the unequal pay that racially oppressed workers and women receive for work of comparable value. All workers receive lower wages when racism succeeds in dividing and disorganizing us.

In every aspect of economic and social life, African Americans, Latinas/Latinos, Native peoples, Asians and Pacific Islanders, Arabs and Middle Eastern peoples, all people of color and other nationally and racially oppressed people experience conditions riddled with the effects of racist discrimination. Racist violence and the poison of racist ideas affect all people of color no matter to which economic class they belong. Attempts to suppress and undercount the vote of African Americans, Latinas/Latinos, Native peoples, and other racially oppressed people affect the very foundation of our country’s democracy and thereby have an impact on all.

Racism permeates the police, the courts, and the prison system, perpetuating unequal sentencing, racial profiling, discriminatory enforcement, police brutality, police killings, immigrant deportations, and separation of immigrant families—even to the extent of ripping babies from their mothers’ arms.


The democratic, civil, and for social change. Working class unity is a necessity.
l and environmental ills of our times.



Capitalism uses ideological poisons to maintain the status quo. Racism remains one of the most potent weapons to divide, disarm, and confuse the working class. All workers receive lower wages when racism succeeds in dividing and disorganizing them. Racism permeates the police, judicial, and prison systems, perpetuating unequal sentencing and mass incarceration, racial profiling, discriminatory enforcement, police brutality, police killings, immigrant deportations, and the forcible separation of immigrant families.

Another potent weapon in the capitalists’ arsenal is sexism. All women are subjected to gender inequality. The constant attacks on social welfare programs, limitations on health care and reproductive rights, and wage differentials based on gender severely affect all women, but especially single mothers, nationally and racially oppressed women, and all working-class women. The reproductive rights of all women are continually under ideological and political attack, removing women’s autonomy over their own bodies and disadvantaging them in the labor market.

Capitalism uses other ideological poisons to divide the working class and allies from each other: national chauvinism, homophobia, transphobia, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, and anticommunism, spread in part by huge capitalist media conglomerates, and in its most vicious forms by right-wing websites. Capitalist ideology promotes false beliefs: that capitalists rightfully earned their wealth, everyone has an equal shot at the “American dream,” poor people are merely lazy, discontent with injustice is an adolescent phase, nature takes care of itself, and capitalism is the freest and most humane economic system. The divisive ideology of individualism has a particularly strong hold in our society.

The legal system is thoroughly racist and anti–working class. U.S. prisons are bursting with millions of prisoners and “detainees,” many in for-profit prisons. As many as two-thirds of prisoners are poor people accused of non-violent crimes; many cannot afford cash bail and must rely on underfunded and low-paid public defenders. Prisoners face widespread abuse and are often forced to work for subminimum wages, replacing organized labor. Many prisoners are subject to abuse, solitary confinement, and the threat of the death penalty."


"Capitalism versus the Environment

We cannot have a healthy humanity without a healthy natural world. Humans are part of nature and rely on the resources of nature for our very existence. We can’t continually harm major parts of the natural world without suffering the consequences.

Climate change is the most far-reaching symptom of the broader imbalance between humanity and the rest of nature. There are many environmental challenges: polluted water, air, and soil; respiratory and reproductive health problems; and disappearing animal and insect habitat, to name but a few. We are facing major adjustments to the balance between humanity and nature, which we can plan to address and ameliorate or suffer the brutal consequences of runaway CO2 levels: rising seas, more frequent and damaging weather events, and more droughts.

Capitalism is both the major cause of these environmental challenges and the major obstacle to solving them"


On how to indoctrinate young people

"They are a generation in ideological and social flux. Great optimism stands shoulder-to-shoulder with great worry about the future. Some see the American Dream as less about money and more about living a meaningful life, others find family and friends more important than security and many are doubtful of governmental support, employer responsibilities and their own ability to provide for their families.

They are socially progressive, racially tolerant, environmentally conscious and strongly in favor of LGBTQ equality. Young people today are less religious, and more civic minded than their predecessors."


"Today’s youth’s thought patterns are being shaped by a forward looking and activist labor movement, an energized immigrant rights movement, and a growing upsurge for marriage equality, the right to choose and against voter suppression."


"That socialist sentiment is widespread among young people must be seen as fertile ground for building its socialist and communist current. Why has the organized left in its different detachments not seized upon this development? What will be its future forms of organization and expression? How will they relate and find form in social networks? What kinds of campaigns and initiatives are needed?

It is clear that broad forms of organization and membership are needed that give equal weight to virtual and on-the-ground campaigns. Equally clear is the need to tap deeply into the creative forms of youth expression with an emphasis on movement building, transparency and militant activism."

Source
Communist party usa


Any of the above sound like what you are fighting for.

Be careful what you wish for.
All the utopian benefits of pure equalism come with all the oppression needed to keep it running.
Individualism and creativity ceases to exist if we are all the same.
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby Leo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:22 pm

Yeah that's why I said that I like some ideas for socialism, but I wouldn't in million years be pro-socialism, just because it means reinventing EVERYTHING, and usually ends up with a dictator.

The thing I like from socialism:

Community-paid education
Community-paid healthcare
No more rich billionaire CEOs (partially joking on this one)

The things I don't like:

Usually ends up with a dictator
Protest is often illegal
Oppression is required for "true" socialism

So actually I'm not wishing for socialism, but I do wish we adopted a few of the socialist concepts.

I'm still with Bernie, we should apply a heavy tax on the extreme upper class that essentially removes billionaires from existence. They might leave to go to a different country, that's fine.
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby William one eye » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:25 pm

the uk offers basic health care. Its not great but it covers everyone.

If you want better you can use the private system.
To me some format like that seems reasonable.

We do in fact actually have a public eduction system.
I think it could do with some economic balancing
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby Leo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:27 pm

Nah, all the healthcare should be public imo so that there isn't a class-based bias in who gets the best treatment. Mind you private healthcare is expensive and many people can't afford it. I have it because my family can afford it, but I know for a fact that a lot of people can't.
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Re: Biden 2020

Postby William one eye » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:32 pm

no way
Im not paying for cosmetic surgery.
Abortion as a method of birth control.
Buy a new liver for some alcoholic.
Change you gender cause you are unhappy with how you were born.
Ect.

I will pay for anyone to go get a heath exam.
Treatment for a cold or non self inflicted disease,
Required surgerys,
Ect.

People leave the uk for treatment when they cant get what they need or its not fast enough or they use the private systems.
I prefer not be stuck with a fully government run medical system.

You dont like how the criminal justice system treats people, wait till the same people run your hospitals and dictors offices
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