[Implemented] Treasures and Banks

[Mohammed]

first i barely read anything from a the images i dont like the cost of credits even thought it is small a lot of people dont buy credits
i like the contracts idea by shaydo

i have nothing to add

[Captain Jack]

DISCLAIMER: The following notes are going into very high detail around the design of the bank system and this is why it is such a large post.



Let me re-write in full detail how we want the bankers to be. Some of these thoughts have already been mentioned.


THEORY - The banker in Pirates Glory (or the Loan Shark!)
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First of all, we want few of them. The whole feature is designed with this in mind.

If everyone becomes a banker, then the bank system will not work. Banks should have clients and the more clients, the better. If everyone builds a bank, there will be few (and uninteresting) clients.

A banker (or loan shark - I will call them bankers for short) should be a dream for those that want to run them. Or else, they won't be able to run them successfully. While a banker will have GREAT opportunities for GREAT profits, it is not going to be an easy work. Bankers might often find themselves scammed and they will need to be able to pay up for debt collection. Or they will need to keep an eye on nation politics to ensure nation officials support on their policies. Or buy guild leaderships to have their members as customers. Or even take care of the nation treasury, to ensure participation on their loans.

But as bankers go for these unique opportunities, in the same time they are going to play a leading role for the rest of the players as well. Loans are going to be very helpful for everyone. New players will want them like crazy, pirates will want them for warships or to rebuild, merchants for warehouses or more trade ships and advanced players for hideout buildings.

Becoming a banker will be expensive and becoming a successful banker will require some great skills and dedication. We estimate that we will have at least 2 leading bankers since start and a total of 10 bankers maximum within a period of 2 months.

BANK COST
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So it becomes crystal clear, that the credit costs is meant to prevent players from becoming bankers and so the build/upgrade costs should do. No player should be able to build a level 20 bank in less than 1 year from their release. Which means it will need to be ridicously high, considering the high perks offered with each level upgrade.

The paper awful writing disguised the question mark in brackets as 2. It is really this though: (?). Our idea for the cost is this formula: 20 Mils * 1.15 ^(Bank level -1) which produces these costs:
Level 1: 20,000,000
Level 2: 23,000,000
Level 3: 26,450,000
Level 4: 30,417,500
Level 5: 34,980,125
Level 6: 40,227,144
Level 7: 46,261,215
Level 8: 53,200,398
Level 9: 61,180,457
Level 10: 70,357,526
Level 11: 80,911,155
Level 12: 93,047,828
Level 13: 107,005,002
Level 14: 123,055,752
Level 15: 141,514,115
Level 16: 162,741,233
Level 17: 187,152,417
Level 18: 215,225,280
Level 19: 247,509,072
Level 20: 284,635,433

Total Cost:2,048,871,652

The nation tax is going to be valid only for the initial construction, in order to let nations control the new banks that will be allowed. So, in this sense, if you control a nation you will be able to control the number of banks (also which banks) will be allowed.

Now, these costs may seem astronomical but they really are not. Generally, with nation control and banks, the wealth production/availability will be increased (just like it happened recently with the new voodoo).

SPECIAL POINTS
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Remember, the game is not going to hold you by the hand out there. You are all alone. You want to scam a banker? Go ahead and do it. You want to scam a client, no one is going to stop you. Once the banker gets your coin, he can do what he likes. Same with the client. Bankers and players will have to find their way in how to control these aspects. I explained in theory, what we expect from a successful banker.

ANSWERS
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Question: What happens if a player opens a bank and then becomes a pirate? Does the bank "Close" until they get a new nation and meet the requirements of that nation to start a bank?

Answer: Yes. Nations will not have requirements for banks in the beginning. If the players wish so though, we will create such a law to facilitate this. Then whichever nation wants, will be able to use this law.


Question: What does it mean for a bank to be closed (due to a ban/pirate flag)? Is it put on hold so no deposits/withdraws and no interest is calculated?

Answer: Indeed. Additionally, no one can access it - except of the owner who can retrieve gold coins (but not deposit).

Question: Will each bank have a description page that the banker can modify? Will players be able to rate banks (thumbs up/thumbs down) so other players can get an idea of who is trustworthy and who isn't?

Answer: Yes. Also a logo, name, tag in the same manner as guild have. There will be a bank list too where banks will be ordered by total rating. Players will be also able to post up comments on Bank's page.

Question: Will I be able to see every nation's policies regarding banks so I can choose which nation to join if I want to change nations?

Answer: All nation laws, including banks, will be publicly visible for everyone to see.

Suggestion answers
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-Multiplayer ownership is a no. Players will be able to send each other gold to team up but in the end only one will manage the bank. The system is already too complicated as it is. Perhaps in the future but not now.

-Materials cost for upgrades. Indeed, all hideout buildings will also require resources. After all, with players producing resources in the near future, we are going to need players to also buy resurces from other players (instead of using their own ships). A more rational formula will be used for resource cost though.

-Contracts sound like a good idea.

-Collaterals could be possible if you explain me who is going to force it? The only way for this to work would be a third party doing this (ie a private marina) but still the third party could scam you.

-Penalties for late repayments are up to each banker choosing. As well as how he will choose to enforce it.

-No need to put any maximum time length for loans. We will let the players work these out.

We are going to offer these tools to the bankers:
1)Ability to keep the debt on the player for as long as he wants.
2)Ability to add additional interest for every delaying day (predefined though, at the start of the loan).
3)Ability to send the bill to someone else/nation to pay it.
4)Ability to erase the debt through a single commandeer card perhaps (player will link the ship with the debt and if commandeered by the banker, the debt will be deleted). (Of course any reduction or even deletion with nothing in return will be possible at any time by the banker).

For loan receivers:
-Ability for auto payment during upkeep (fractional). Loan receiver will however be able to turn this off at any time and switch to manual installments (which means he can choose to ignore paying).

Finally, regarding the nation participation take these in mind:
1)Bankers will suffer loses from scams and players who turn inactive, they need to play with big profit probability in order to both sustain losses.

2)The 50% surplus will need a level 20 bank which costs a lot.

3)The nation treasury will not always be full of money.

Treasury theft will be controlled by the nation officials. If the nation officials are "bribed" or are the same person then the banker obviously is going to be able to steal from the state. We are not going to police treasury theft as administration. It will be regarded as a player affair which means that a banker will be able to give FAKE loans just for this. It will be up to citizens to take power in their hands and get rid of the corrupted banker/officials.

The only limit we are thinking to implement in regards of this is that "The total sum of unpaid loads cannot be greater than 10 times the deposited amount". This means that if you want to loan out 100 000 000 gold coins, you will need at least 10 millions deposited in your bank. Whenever this relation becomes unbalanced, either you will not be able to issue more loans or players will not be able to withdraw money (even if your treasure affords it).

What are we going to administrate,is the deposit feature. Bankers and nation officials are going to brink responsibility in case some players setup cow accounts that feed their mains (milking). They ought to keep an eye for this and report where there are suspicions for multiplay/milking (we will create an easy way to report too).

[Captain dungeness]

This quote from the Hideout/Gold Bar forum topic:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=393&start=10#p3667

lvl 20 goldsmith will be more expensive than you can currently imagine - it will be the MOST expensive thing in Pirates Glory

If a level 20 bank costs >2B gold then it's true: I can't imagine what a level 20 Goldsmith will cost...
If the bank is that expensive then I would only want to level it up to maybe level 2 or 3. I can think of a work-around for the maximum deposit limit so I would only be limited on 1) Bounty gold (I could ask the nation to place the bounty instead) and 2) the nation % contribution which isn't too important to me considering I'm the only active player in New Zealand right now.

I agree banks should be difficult to build and run but if banks are that expensive I would rather spend my gold on the Goldsmith or buying more captains.

[Shaydo]

While it would take a while i like the idea that building a high level bank should require a large investment. 2B does seem a bit high but i think only a couple of players can generate that in a year, take me a bit longer, but i can see why you've opted for it.

The system sounds good as it is, lots of room for profit, lots of room to lose it all.

I like the fact that admin won't be controlling it with regards to nation treasuries, it adds the ability for players to be corrupt in power...

The only limit we are thinking to implement in regards of this is that "The total sum of unpaid loads cannot be greater than 10 times the deposited amount". This means that if you want to loan out 100 000 000 gold coins, you will need at least 10 millions deposited in your bank. Whenever this relation becomes unbalanced, either you will not be able to issue more loans or players will not be able to withdraw money (even if your treasure affords it).

This makes sense, stops it becoming over balanced and requires bankers to be careful and pay attention to loans and investments.

[Captain Jack]

We will see the cost of the Goldsmith, not sure about it yet. The banks cost might seem a bit too high right now but that's the point. We don't want anyone to be able to afford a lvl 20 Bank right away. We will let players slowly build up, if they want.

Another leading idea right now, for the bank, is to keep the total cost to 2 Billions and make each level cost 100 Millions. This way it will be easier for people to estimate costs at any given time (no caclulators needed) AND it serves the initial purpose even greater (100 Millions is a number that few can reach).

In this way, we can remove the credits requirement (no credits needed to build a bank).

Let me know what you think.

[Rolando]

Sounds good and makes Banks and Goldsmiths available for free players to make both, that is a good idea and expands the concept.

[Chase]

cool

[Shaydo]

100 million a level means few would even be able to open a bank, take around 1-2+ months per level for a medium size trader(2.1mill/day(50TF on Tor-Tzo(72g/unit)no voodoo)).

If around 2 billion is what you want the total price to be so the upper levels are restricted more than the overall access to a bank, then an incremental system would work better. If you want access restricted to open a bank, then 100m a level would achieve that.

For incremental however a proposal.
Cost = 10,000,000 + (10,000,000 * (level -1))
Level - Cost
1 10,000,000
2 20,000,000
3 30,000,000
4 40,000,000
5 50,000,000
6 60,000,000
7 70,000,000
8 80,000,000
9 90,000,000
10 100,000,000
11 110,000,000
12 120,000,000
13 130,000,000
14 140,000,000
15 150,000,000
16 160,000,000
17 170,000,000
18 180,000,000
19 190,000,000
20 200,000,000
Total Cost 2,100,000,000

It total's just over 2 billion, so the upper levels are restricted and the lower starting cost means it is achievable to open a bank without to much strain, but leveling one past the first couple of levels will require a long term plan and large revenue, to make it possible and worth while.
It means each guild could in theory open a low level bank within themselves, guild war chest or emergency fund, but if they wanted any real investment they'd be best going to a player that was attempting to make a large banking empire.

[Captain Jack]

100 million a level means few would even be able to open a bank

This is what we want to achieve though.

[Shaydo]

Then it would certainly achieve that, although in theory as you leveled it up, it would get easier to level because your revenue would increase while the cost to level remained the same? Meaning level 19-20 could take a lot less time than levels 1-2.