Gem Stones

[Most Lee Harmless]

How common they are will depend on how much time is spent looking for gems.

I do not agree with that, because it takes 2 turns to look for a enemy and with 20% to get nothing, and 15% to get a pirate hunter and to tell you, they are a pain in the neck.

And 4 turns to attack, which means it will make it worth even more.

Perhaps the gem chance should be linked to defeating a pirate hunter : mostly they are a nuisance with very little reward for defeating them : adding the chance of scoring a gem will make them desirable opponents.

BTW : pirate hunters are not invincible : their strength is related to your ship numbers so by the time you have enough ships to be making them tough opponents, you should possess a decent war fleet : other trick is to cast a Pacifism before hunting NPC's and that will generally weaken them substantially.

[Grimrock Litless]

How common they are will depend on how much time is spent looking for gems.

I do not agree with that, because it takes 2 turns to look for a enemy and with 20% to get nothing, and 15% to get a pirate hunter and to tell you, they are a pain in the neck.

And 4 turns to attack, which means it will make it worth even more.

Perhaps the gem chance should be linked to defeating a pirate hunter : mostly they are a nuisance with very little reward for defeating them : adding the chance of scoring a gem will make them desirable opponents.

BTW : pirate hunters are not invincible : their strength is related to your ship numbers so by the time you have enough ships to be making them tough opponents, you should possess a decent war fleet : other trick is to cast a Pacifism before hunting NPC's and that will generally weaken them substantially.

Yes, their power is how much ships someone have, but if you want this kind of thing, you must make sure that its just as easy for traders as for pirates, most pirates has only a few fleets, i mean very few fleets, or even very few ships, just ships that allow u to take out traders, like sloop and such. If its only easy for pirates, that is just imbalance to sky over heavens. For your saying on " by the time you have enough ships to be making them tough opponents, you should possess a decent war fleet", that is not true as well, there are beginner pirates that gained loans and have 3 Sotl level 8 with only 18 ships.

As that yourself is a pirate, you will want such worthy resource to be in your favor.

[Haron]

The problems with pirate hunters is really non-existant (I definitely have a strategy ready to find gems which would work just fine), and even if it WAS easier for pirates with few ships than traders with many hundred ships, it would not be much of a problem, since those traders generally make much more money otherwise; those few-ship pirates good use the small boost.

Anyway.

I prefer finding gems in treasure fleets. Sure, it could be possible to let them be found ALSO in NPC treasure hunts. The problem with that, though, is that both ways only require turns. You could balance them so that it would take about the same number of turns either way, but why bother, since that means you just have two ways of achieving the exact same result for the exact same cost? IF there should be several ways to find them, then they should be different in some way. I would prefer one way to be safe, but cost lots of turns, and another way to be more dangerous, but cost less turns.

Let's say we find them in either treasure fleets or in NPC treasure hunts. The suggested way with treasure fleets, I can find one gem for an average of around 700 turns. Now, if we add danger to anyone attacking a treasure fleet (but not any other NPC), then I will also gain 6 danger 10 times during my search for a gem. Let's say there is NO danger AT ALL for searching for them in NPC treasure hunts. Then, the cost for finding them there should be higher - maybe an average of 2000 turns to find a gem. That way, you can actually choose between two TRULY different ways of finding them.

Someone asked for the price of a gem. I have a somewhat better answer now (upper limit, not exact price), since I believe I can find a gem on average each 700 turn spent with the proposed idea of 10% chance to find a gem in a treasure fleet. Double turns for two days cost 15 credits. That's 288 turns for 15 credits. At that rate, 700 turns is worth around 36 credits. So there would be no reason to pay MORE than 36 credits for a gem, unless you need one really fast. And usually the price would be much lower, since most people have a large surplus of turns anyway, meaning that turns generally have a very low value (they are only worth what you can get from treasure hunts or NPC plunder, which is really not a lot).

[Most Lee Harmless]

I'm not a pirate, so your (Guluere) last comment is inaccurate.

Pirate hunters are not a fixed quantity, they can be taken out by most players if those players care to prep themselves correctly. If you have fewer than 50 ships, and cast a Pacifism, you can defeat a pirate hunter fleet with a half-decent SoW, so your point about SotL's, etc is also inaccurate.

if, as a trader, you choose to only operate weak trade ships, well, NPC hunting is not an option for you regardless of what prizes they may offer : but that's your choice and shouldnt then be sued to restrict others options. Not just you playing the game, after all.

[Grimrock Litless]

The problems with pirate hunters is really non-existant (I definitely have a strategy ready to find gems which would work just fine), and even if it WAS easier for pirates with few ships than traders with many hundred ships, it would not be much of a problem, since those traders generally make much more money otherwise; those few-ship pirates good use the small boost.

Anyway.

I prefer finding gems in treasure fleets. Sure, it could be possible to let them be found ALSO in NPC treasure hunts. The problem with that, though, is that both ways only require turns. You could balance them so that it would take about the same number of turns either way, but why bother, since that means you just have two ways of achieving the exact same result for the exact same cost? IF there should be several ways to find them, then they should be different in some way. I would prefer one way to be safe, but cost lots of turns, and another way to be more dangerous, but cost less turns.

Let's say we find them in either treasure fleets or in NPC treasure hunts. The suggested way with treasure fleets, I can find one gem for an average of around 700 turns. Now, if we add danger to anyone attacking a treasure fleet (but not any other NPC), then I will also gain 6 danger 10 times during my search for a gem. Let's say there is NO danger AT ALL for searching for them in NPC treasure hunts. Then, the cost for finding them there should be higher - maybe an average of 2000 turns to find a gem. That way, you can actually choose between two TRULY different ways of finding them.

Someone asked for the price of a gem. I have a somewhat better answer now (upper limit, not exact price), since I believe I can find a gem on average each 700 turn spent with the proposed idea of 10% chance to find a gem in a treasure fleet. Double turns for two days cost 15 credits. That's 288 turns for 15 credits. At that rate, 700 turns is worth around 36 credits. So there would be no reason to pay MORE than 36 credits for a gem, unless you need one really fast. And usually the price would be much lower, since most people have a large surplus of turns anyway, meaning that turns generally have a very low value (they are only worth what you can get from treasure hunts or NPC plunder, which is really not a lot).

To me the most realistic way is to have gem mines in the hideout, and/or from npc treasure hunts, also from npc fleets. And a way for everyone to get it by using gc and/or credits in the black market, I prefer to have a new market called the black market, and each port defers from each other on the black market. And a nation can allow the selling and buying of it and if you sell and buy from a port that doesn't allow it, all your fleet gains danger, or hostility to that nation. So this means nation will be playing in the role of it as well, and both trader and pirates has a way to gain it, to bankers, merchants and pirates, and even treasure hunters can get them.

Also, you can only hand as to 5 gems, as someone has said before. And the rest is to have them buried. So more people can be promoted to become a treasure hunter. As for shipping of gems, each gem takes 100 cargo space, this means that sotl and all big ships can't store them to avoid them being too good. People would want to manually ships them, and be online to make sure no one attack so you can retaliate, which also promotes having people being online.

[Grimrock Litless]

I prefer finding gems in treasure fleets. Sure, it could be possible to let them be found ALSO in NPC treasure hunts. The problem with that, though, is that both ways only require turns. You could balance them so that it would take about the same number of turns either way, but why bother, since that means you just have two ways of achieving the exact same result for the exact same cost? IF there should be several ways to find them, then they should be different in some way. I would prefer one way to be safe, but cost lots of turns, and another way to be more dangerous, but cost less turns.

Let's say we find them in either treasure fleets or in NPC treasure hunts. The suggested way with treasure fleets, I can find one gem for an average of around 700 turns. Now, if we add danger to anyone attacking a treasure fleet (but not any other NPC), then I will also gain 6 danger 10 times during my search for a gem. Let's say there is NO danger AT ALL for searching for them in NPC treasure hunts. Then, the cost for finding them there should be higher - maybe an average of 2000 turns to find a gem. That way, you can actually choose between two TRULY different ways of finding them.

Someone asked for the price of a gem. I have a somewhat better answer now (upper limit, not exact price), since I believe I can find a gem on average each 700 turn spent with the proposed idea of 10% chance to find a gem in a treasure fleet. Double turns for two days cost 15 credits. That's 288 turns for 15 credits. At that rate, 700 turns is worth around 36 credits. So there would be no reason to pay MORE than 36 credits for a gem, unless you need one really fast. And usually the price would be much lower, since most people have a large surplus of turns anyway, meaning that turns generally have a very low value (they are only worth what you can get from treasure hunts or NPC plunder, which is really not a lot).

That was what i said, it will cost more to find in treasure hunts, each 3 mill you invest to you have to use 100 + the turn cost to make the npc value high turns or more just to get a 5% chance to find it.

[Grimrock Litless]

To make this fair, a gem mine will take, 1000 turns, in preparation(because only few people will have 1000 turns in their hand at all times) and when you start making 1 gem, it takes around 3 days and a lot of tools(pickaxes). Because of the amount of turns, time, tools needed, the chances to make one is 100% when someone cast a lazy craftmen on you, the chances drop by 10% each cast. Of course no one will know you are mining a gem unless they are lucky, and the lazy craftmen cast is shorter, then the time taken. Each level upgrade for the mine will cost less turns(10 turns less), and 30 mins less, and tools needed less.

[Haron]

I agree that it might be possible to find them in both treasure fleets AND NPC treasure hunts - provided the NPC treasure hunts way costs MUCH more turns on average. Also remember that when people start burying gems in player treasures, you will occationally also find those gems when going treasure hunting.

I do NOT like the idea of mining them in a hideout building, though.

As for the "black market", that sounds like something that needs more thought, but could be a good idea some time in the future - perhaps not only for gems, but for other things as well. I suggest you think more about that, and post a separate suggestion. For now, I would like the gems to be sold on the same market as voodoo cards (and, as I have mentioned too many times by now, I think such a market should be a stock-market system ).

Now: Why are the pirate hunters not a problem? Since I do not give away strategies for free, I had to find a sponsor for this message:



This message is brought to you by T'zak Ryn - your naval combat solutions provider.
Reference customer: "After they were done with him, the target came begging for mercy, letting my main operation run smoothly. I got revenge AND made a profit. Thank you, T'zak Ryn!"
Reference target: "Aaaaaaah! Enough! Get them away from me! Pleeeease, don't hurt me ever again!!!"

OK, so this is what you do to avoid pirate hunters: You simply patrol in every port (with a single ship stored there for such purposes). Don't attack anyone unless they are a treasure fleet. When you encounter pirate hunters, you leave that port alone for 2 hours (then the hunter is gone), and continue. When you find a treasure fleet, send a combat fleet there to defeat them. Easy as pie.

[Grimrock Litless]

I agree that it might be possible to find them in both treasure fleets AND NPC treasure hunts - provided the NPC treasure hunts way costs MUCH more turns on average. Also remember that when people start burying gems in player treasures, you will occationally also find those gems when going treasure hunting.

I do NOT like the idea of mining them in a hideout building, though.

As for the "black market", that sounds like something that needs more thought, but could be a good idea some time in the future - perhaps not only for gems, but for other things as well. I suggest you think more about that, and post a separate suggestion. For now, I would like the gems to be sold on the same market as voodoo cards (and, as I have mentioned too many times by now, I think such a market should be a stock-market system ).

Now: Why are the pirate hunters not a problem? Since I do not give away strategies for free, I had to find a sponsor for this message:



This message is brought to you by T'zak Ryn - your naval combat solutions provider.

Reference customer: "After they were done with him, the target came begging for mercy, letting my main operation run smoothly. I got revenge AND made a profit. Thank you, T'zak Ryn!"
Reference target: "Aaaaaaah! Enough! Get them away from me! Pleeeease, don't hurt me ever again!!!"

OK, so this is what you do to avoid pirate hunters: You simply patrol in every port (with a single ship stored there for such purposes). Don't attack anyone unless they are a treasure fleet. When you encounter pirate hunters, you leave that port alone for 2 hours (then the hunter is gone), and continue. When you find a treasure fleet, send a combat fleet there to defeat them. Easy as pie.

Yes, but that would be time consuming to do that kind of strat. Because of the fact that its 5 times higher for the chance to get pirate hunter then a 3% treasure fleet, we can conclude that lets just make a assumption that it will take you 3 incounter with pirate hunter, to finally get to a treasure fleet, which would have took 6 hours, or even more time, and the 10% to get a gem from that treasure fleet we can get a assumption that it takes 5 times of that all to get to 50%(average) which means that 6 * 5 = 30 hours, which is more or less just like the time taken for a gem mine, and turns, and this has not account for the chance errors as well.

[Haron]

Not with a ship in every port, no. Enter ship in fleet, go hunting. In each port, every 5th encounter will be a pirate hunter, then remove ship from fleet. So you can spend 10 turns in every port (on average) before having to wait for the hunters to disappear. That's 210 turns spent for all ports total. So you only have turns enough to do this once a day anyway. Doesn't take much time at all. Much less than writing forum posts