Wars and blockades

[Haron]

There has been talk about adding national diplomacy. Also, in another post, I suggested a "Nation barrier change" (see separate topic). One of the reasons for such a "barrier" was that I expected wars to be part of Avonmora in the future. Here is my suggestion to what wars should be - at least for a start:

DECLARATION OF WAR:
A nation can declare war on another nation only after a vote. If the vote passes, a war is declared. A single pirate can at any time declare a "private war" on any nation, making him/her an "enemy of the state". A nation can declare any pirate (pirates ONLY, not members of another nation) an enemy of the state only after a vote.

ENDING WARS:
A nation may sue for peace with another nation only after a vote. If the vote passes, a peace offer is sent. The receiving nation then votes if they will accept the peace offer or not. If they vote to accept, peace is resored, and the war is ended. This can be implemented in various ways: The "simple" way is to just offer peace, and handle any other demands separately. The more elegant way is to include offers with peace offers, like transfer of money between treasuries or perhaps even have a percentage of the nation players influence in a particular port transfered to the players of the other nations, in order to yield port control. Likewise, an enemy of the state may at any time beg for a "Royal pardon". The receiving nation then votes if they will accept or not. A nation can also offer a royal pardon to an enemy of the state after a vote.

WHAT DOES WAR MEAN?
As of now, I suggest that wars only affect blockades and attack on ports. Which leads me to what a blockade is:

BLOCKADE TYPES:
There are two types of blockades: Defensive blockades and offensive blockades. Only players of a nation at war with the nation controlling a port, or enemies of state, may establish an offensive blockade. Defensive blockades may be established only by the nation controlling a port, or by pirates who are NOT enemies of the state.

ENTERING BLOCKADES:
In order for a fleet to enter a blockade, it must be at the port in question and have 2 or less danger. The owning player then spends 1 gem, and the fleet enters the blockade. The fleet then immideately gets 3 danges. A fleet can be removed from the blockade by the owning player at any time. It is then returned to port (takes 1 hour)

DANGER FOR BLOCKADE FLEET:
Danger works different for blockade fleets than for other fleets. Rather than LOSE one danger each hour, such fleets GAIN one danger each hour. When attacked they only lose 18 danger if they LOSE; otherwise, they lose no danger at all. The maximum danger for a blockade fleet is 180. If a blockade fleet ever reaches a danger of 2 or less, it is considered temporarily defeated, and is removed from the blockade and sent to port (takes 1 hour). Blockade fleets are immune to danger manipulation voodoo.

ATTACKING BLOCKADES:
Only nations at war with the defending nation, or enemies of the state, may ever attack a defensive blockade. Anyone except members of the "attacking" nation may attack an offensive blockade.

THE PURPOSE OF BLOCKADES:
The purpose of an offensive blockade is to prevent anyone from entering the blocked port. For as long as any fleet exist in an offensive blockade, NO FLEET may enter that port (like the "Terrorize" voodoo card cast on all players for that port). A defensive blockade has two purposes: First, it prevents enemies of the state and members of nations at war with the defending nation from entering the port (like the "Terrorize" voodoo card cast on all such players for that port). Secondly, they protect the ports from attacks. No port may me attacked as long as a defensive blockade exists for that port. Which leads me to attacks on ports.

ATTACKS ON PORTS:
A port with no defensive blockade may be attacked by enemies of the state or members of a nation at war with the defending nation. A port functions like a fleet with five forts when attacked, except that it does not lose "fort levels", and they are immune to voodoo. A fort has a strength about similar to a flag galleon. If a fleet attacks a port and loses, it works like an ordinary loss, with the gold lost transferred to the defending nations treasury. If the fleet attacking a port wins, three things happen: 1) Some of the population in the port is lost (maybe about 0.1%), 2) All members of the defending nation lose influence IN THAT PORT (maybe about 1%), 3) Some gold is lost from the defending nations treasury to the winning fleet (maybe about 0.01-0.05%)

PORT CONTROL CHANGE:
If the control of the port ever changes from one nation to another, all fleets in both the offensive and defensive blockade are returned to port.


Sorry for making this post so long, but there were lots of things to consider. I'm sure there will be many comments, and hopefully a few suggested improvements too. But the most important question is: Is something along these lines desireable? I think there are two requirements for this. 1) A nation changing barrier including a time limit must be in place (see separate post). 2) The advantages of owning a port must increase, since these suggestions will make it harder to hold a port. There was once suggested companies with stocks that pays dividends; if that's included, then the port nations could tax these dividends. Another way is to increase NPC citizen taxes. Maybe trade in the port can be taxed. Or new features could make port ownership more valuable.

[ChaIbaud]

This idea counts on the implementation of gems for part of it. Will it be a certain amount of common gems, uncommon gems, or rare gems or just one gem to get in. And I believe that if blockades are integrated into the game that the port should have something on the map to indicate it is being either offensively or defensively blockaded.

[Stan Rogers]

I think this is an excellent framework to illustrate a 1st rendition of blockade. Some things I would/could offer as alternate suggestions and obviously some other features in game needs attention but it is a reasonable, well thought out suggestion that promotes further thought and modifications.

For example, I think a port should have to buy cannons to defend itself and the cannons taxed out of national treasury for upkeep.
Population in a port should limit the amount of cannon it can build. NPC port militia operates port cannon automatically when fired upon and I could go on but for now, will refrain from commenting until the idea actually goes onto the development list.

There probably needs to be other features implemented either before hand or along with to make a nice 'package'

[Shadowood]

+1

[DezNutz]

+1 For Wars

+1 For Offensive Blockades. Good idea, needs some tuning.

-1 For Defensive Blockades. Blockades are offensive in nature, they are to prevent supplies from reaching the port. Keeping hostile forces from reaching port can be done by different means.


How do blockades effect trade routes? Does the fleet wait for the blockade to clear, does it pay a fee to pass through, does it continue on it's route skipping the port (this being a problem for 2 port TRs), does it return back to it's previous port and pause?

[Haron]

Chaulbad: Since I think gems should have only one quality, I think it should cost one gem of that quality

Stan: Thank you. And it is indeed MEANT as a framework. Other features may come later. In fact, the one you mentioned, having the port owning nation build up the port defence, was one I already thought of. I didn't include it now for two reasons: 1) Like you suggested, we start with these other things, and can add that later. Best to keep it relatively basic first, to not include TOO many new things at once. 2) My initial idea for this had what I consider a flaw. I fear that ports may end up either too weak or too strong this way. I don't want single cutters to be able to beat the port, nor do I think it should be necessary to have full MoW fleets to do it. With nations building up defences, I feared one of these might happen. Anyway, once we see how wars function (if it is ever implemented), I'm sure someone can come up with a good idea for building up port defences which circumvents these problems. Also, I agree that more features are needed either before this or as a package. I suggested nation change barriers (with time limits) and higher value for holding ports (by some means) as two requirements.

Deznutz: By removing "Defensive Blockades", the whole idea of wars fall apart, for two reasons: 1) They are needed to defend ports (either against warring nations or enemies of the state) and 2) They are one of the reasons a large nation may go to war against smaller ones - to punish them by refusing them accesss to ports. If it is the NAME "defensive blockade" you dislike, I have no issue whatsoever changing that to something else. Do you have a suggestion? Also, I agree that offensive blockades is a part that may need more tuning. I already have a small idea which I think will improve it (entering ships in offensive blockades gives them the full 180 danger immideately, so they must be hit ten times to be defeated), but other tweaking may make it better too. As for how they work - I suggest they work by having the trade route fleet simply move on to its next port, without being able to sell, unload, buy or load cargo. Like I think the terrorize voodoo cards does (can anyone confirm this?).

[DezNutz]

Deznutz: By removing "Defensive Blockades", the whole idea of wars fall apart, for two reasons: 1) They are needed to defend ports (either against warring nations or enemies of the state) and 2) They are one of the reasons a large nation may go to war against smaller ones - to punish them by refusing them accesss to ports. If it is the NAME "defensive blockade" you dislike, I have no issue whatsoever changing that to something else. Do you have a suggestion? Also, I agree that offensive blockades is a part that may need more tuning. I already have a small idea which I think will improve it (entering ships in offensive blockades gives them the full 180 danger immideately, so they must be hit ten times to be defeated), but other tweaking may make it better too. As for how they work - I suggest they work by having the trade route fleet simply move on to its next port, without being able to sell, unload, buy or load cargo. Like I think the terrorize voodoo cards does (can anyone confirm this?).

The defensive needs and the ability to block a hostile nation from entering the port from a defensive standpoint are great concepts. I think that there is a better way to implement these. I have been working on an idea, but it is a full implementation in itself. I'm almost done with the write up on it. I will post a summary here and the entire implementation in a new thread. Hopefully will have it posted by tomorrow.

[Stan Rogers]

Nation diplomacy feature needs completion beforehand. When a nation has been 'officially' declared friend or foe, that sets up one requirement for blockade and allows differentiation of flags that can either be blockaded or allowed to pass into port depending on the diplomatic status.

A nation/player/guild could assign war fleets to guard a port in the same fashion as fishing is currently done. If an enemy flag tries to enter an enemy port, the war fleet could be told to auto attack and for the trespasser, fleets could be told to run away if attacked or could be told to fight . That would obviously be a choice the trespasser could assign beforehand on a fleet. Offensive or defensive blockade, the mechanism could remain the same.

Me, as a blockade port defender could assign any type/strength/number of fleet(s) to help prevent enemy flags from entering my nations port. How effective it would be would depend on the enemy fleet chosen to try to "breech" the blockade I have imposed.
Automatic battles would have to happen between defender and offender and battle reports generated for each combatant so damaged ships could be repaired etc.
Me, as someone who wants to breech the blockade to allow some much needed supplies to be brought back to my port may need to send in a sturdy war fleet or two that can do battle with a few fleets while trying to get to the port to grab needed goods.

Success or failure would depend on how many fleets are guarding the port and their strengths.

This could make a basic starting point that has the ability to be expanded upon if/when ports undergo development but has the ability to stand alone in its function.


Just some more musings on what might work regarding blockade abilities and functions

[Most Lee Harmless]

I express a small concern about blockades : lets not forget the heart of the game is trading, its what creates and pumps the life-blood of the game around us all... coin. Even the pirates rely upon it, for if less trade happens, less coin gets made, so fewer ships get built, and, inevitably, fewer ships will get plundered, until we have a couple of dozen pirates all chasing the same small remnants of the former trade fleets : blockades by one nation will engender retaliatory blockades by others until all that is left is a few ports each can trade from and to. So, just a thought which might give a pause for further thought.

[Meliva]

I express a small concern about blockades : lets not forget the heart of the game is trading, its what creates and pumps the life-blood of the game around us all... coin. Even the pirates rely upon it, for if less trade happens, less coin gets made, so fewer ships get built, and, inevitably, fewer ships will get plundered, until we have a couple of dozen pirates all chasing the same small remnants of the former trade fleets : blockades by one nation will engender retaliatory blockades by others until all that is left is a few ports each can trade from and to. So, just a thought which might give a pause for further thought.

perhaps make it to where creating and sustaining a blockade is a expensive and difficult task, so it would discourage creating them except in times of war, and make it to where only those at war with the nation are affected by it. example, US and Spain are at war, US blockades one of Spains ports, so Spain Citizens can not access that port, but an Egyptian player like myself would be free to come and go as Egypt is not involved in the war.