Gun discussion

[Meliva]

Murder Suicide 28 June 1997 Richmond, Tasmania 5 Peter Shoobridge cut the throat of his 4 daughters whilst they slept then took his own life with a rifle after cutting off one of his hands with an axe.
Wright St Bikie Murders 8 October 1999 Adelaide, Australia 3 0 Hell's Angels feud[11]
Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel fire 23 June 2000 Childers, Queensland 15 unknown Arson attack by Robert Paul Long, which killed 15 international backpackers
Monash University shooting 21 October 2002 Melbourne, Victoria 2 5 Mass shooting attack by Huan Yun "Allen" Xiang
Churchill Fire 7 February 2009 Churchill, Victoria 10 unknown Arson attack by Brendan Sokaluk that killed 10 people, during the Black Saturday bushfires period
Lin family murders 18 July 2009 North Epping, New South Wales 5 unknown Blunt instrument attack that killed 5 members of the Lin family
Quakers Hill nursing home fire 18 November 2011 Sydney, NSW 11 Arson attack by Roger Kingsley Dean, a nurse, which killed 11 people
Rozelle fire murders 4 September 2014 Rozelle, New South Wales 3 2 Arson attack by Adeel Khan which killed 3 and injured another 2.[12]
Hunt family murders 9 September 2014 Lockhart, New South Wales 5 0 A Mass shooting and Familicide by Geoff Hunt who killed his wife and three children before turning the gun on himself
Sydney Siege 15 - 16 December 2014 Sydney, NSW 3 4 Siege. A lone gunman, Man Haron Monis, held hostage ten customers and eight employees of a Lindt chocolate café located at Martin Place in Sydney, Australia. The NSW Police Tactical Operations Unit shot Monis dead, after he executed a hostage. In the exchange five others were hit by Police bullet fragments, causing accidental death to one of them.
Cairns child killings 19 December 2014 Cairns, Queensland 8 1 (self-inflicted by perpetrator) Stabbing attack. 8 children aged 18 months to 15 years killed. Thirty-seven-year-old woman also found injured. The woman, Raina Mersane Ina Thaiday, was later charged with the murder of the children, 7 of whom were hers, plus her niece.[13]
2017 Melbourne car attack 20 January 2017 Melbourne, Victoria 6 30 Vehicular attack. Dimitrious Gargasoulas drove a Holden Commodore into Bourke St Mall, resulting in the deaths of 6 people and injuring 30+ others.


There have been massacres in Australia in the last 2 decades, but like you said earlier-its easy to draw a conclusion you want by ignoring certain numbers.

[sXs]

Kangaroo, one thing you forget is that gun violence in Australia was already on the decline before the ban. In fact it was in decline at a faster rate before the ban. The Ban did nothing to change the trends. Now I know statistics can be manipulated. I understand that.




The ban on firearms in Australia had no affect on the rate of gun related deaths at all. the trend was already in place. If anything, the rate of decline has slowed.

Private gun ownership does not cause more gun deaths. this is a fact in the US and in Australia. There is no correlation no matter how you look at that statistics.

[sXs]

Also population size is relative.

US population 1990 249.6 milliom

US population 2016 324.8 million

[sXs]

The fact is murder is illegal in both countries. It is illegal to use a firearm in the commission of a crime in both countries, but it still happens.

In Australia, illicit drugs are banned, yet there is still drug use,It is illegal to drink and drive, yet it till happens.

Criminals do not care about laws or bans. If someone is hell bent on killing a bunch of people, they will find a way.

I live in Texas a few hours away from the recent Church shooting. The one thing that is not reported, or undereported is the man that committed this act was stopped by a legal gun owner, How many more would have died if that person was not allowed to own a gun because of a ban on firearms. That is one thing that you will never know because there is no way of knowing intent of the criminal. One thing is true though, the perpetrator had more ammunition.

I own firearms, I have rifles, shotguns and a few handguns. I have since I was 13 when my father gave me my first rifle. A Marlin .22l rifle.

The population of Texas is 25.46 million and over 22 million legally owned firearms. If there were a direct correlation to guns and mass shootings, you would see news reports like the church shooting on a weekly basis.

If you want to do a true comparison between US and Australia use The number of legally owned firearms and the gun death rate.

roughly 6.1 million legally owned firearms in Australia. Roughly 330 million in the US.

Australia gun deaths per guns owned = .89 gun deaths per 100,000 guns owned
USA gun deaths per guns owned= .918 gun deaths per 100,000 guns owned.

IF the problem is guns then you need to do the comparison by guns owned not population.

All of these stats are easily found.

[Meliva]

I find it rather silly how it seems some people seem to think guns cause violence, or no guns means less violence, when in reality a gun is just a tool, a very dangerous tool, but a tool none the less. And a person who wants to use that tool to kill people will either find a way to GET a gun illegally since they are planning to do something illegal already which they need the gun for, or they will simply use a different tool-knives, bombs, a car etc. And with no guns, that person could cause a lot of harm before police arrive and take them down, when its possible a law abiding citizen could have done it if they hadn't had to get rid of their gun.

[Kangaroo]

Murder Suicide 28 June 1997 Richmond, Tasmania 5 Peter Shoobridge cut the throat of his 4 daughters whilst they slept then took his own life with a rifle after cutting off one of his hands with an axe.
Wright St Bikie Murders 8 October 1999 Adelaide, Australia 3 0 Hell's Angels feud[11]
Childers Palace Backpackers Hostel fire 23 June 2000 Childers, Queensland 15 unknown Arson attack by Robert Paul Long, which killed 15 international backpackers
Monash University shooting 21 October 2002 Melbourne, Victoria 2 5 Mass shooting attack by Huan Yun "Allen" Xiang
Churchill Fire 7 February 2009 Churchill, Victoria 10 unknown Arson attack by Brendan Sokaluk that killed 10 people, during the Black Saturday bushfires period
Lin family murders 18 July 2009 North Epping, New South Wales 5 unknown Blunt instrument attack that killed 5 members of the Lin family
Quakers Hill nursing home fire 18 November 2011 Sydney, NSW 11 Arson attack by Roger Kingsley Dean, a nurse, which killed 11 people
Rozelle fire murders 4 September 2014 Rozelle, New South Wales 3 2 Arson attack by Adeel Khan which killed 3 and injured another 2.[12]
Hunt family murders 9 September 2014 Lockhart, New South Wales 5 0 A Mass shooting and Familicide by Geoff Hunt who killed his wife and three children before turning the gun on himself
Sydney Siege 15 - 16 December 2014 Sydney, NSW 3 4 Siege. A lone gunman, Man Haron Monis, held hostage ten customers and eight employees of a Lindt chocolate café located at Martin Place in Sydney, Australia. The NSW Police Tactical Operations Unit shot Monis dead, after he executed a hostage. In the exchange five others were hit by Police bullet fragments, causing accidental death to one of them.
Cairns child killings 19 December 2014 Cairns, Queensland 8 1 (self-inflicted by perpetrator) Stabbing attack. 8 children aged 18 months to 15 years killed. Thirty-seven-year-old woman also found injured. The woman, Raina Mersane Ina Thaiday, was later charged with the murder of the children, 7 of whom were hers, plus her niece.[13]
2017 Melbourne car attack 20 January 2017 Melbourne, Victoria 6 30 Vehicular attack. Dimitrious Gargasoulas drove a Holden Commodore into Bourke St Mall, resulting in the deaths of 6 people and injuring 30+ others.


There have been massacres in Australia in the last 2 decades, but like you said earlier-its easy to draw a conclusion you want by ignoring certain numbers.

None of those above 5 involved firearms, and only 2 in that entire time with 5 did, so yeah, quoting stats without bias nicely avoided

[Kangaroo]

I find it rather silly how it seems some people seem to think guns cause violence, or no guns means less violence, when in reality a gun is just a tool, a very dangerous tool, but a tool none the less. And a person who wants to use that tool to kill people will either find a way to GET a gun illegally since they are planning to do something illegal already which they need the gun for, or they will simply use a different tool-knives, bombs, a car etc. And with no guns, that person could cause a lot of harm before police arrive and take them down, when its possible a law abiding citizen could have done it if they hadn't had to get rid of their gun.

Totally agree, the issue isn't ownership, it's availability.

In countries or states where ownership is properly regulated, the nutjob doesn't have the arsenal available that he does where they are not.
A prime reason we have zero vs 500 odd isn't the gun, it's the availability of the gun to people who really shouldn't have them.

IF the US had a 30 day cooling off period and a mental health check associated with gun ownership then the mass shooting incidents would in all probability decline significantly. I don't recall where I saw it, but I did read that the majority of US massacres where at the hands of people who had diagnosed mental health issues.

Gun ownership of itself isn't the issue in my opinion, it's letting people have them who really shouldn't.

As stated previously, I was a gun owner when our laws where enacted, I was an accomplished shot with a rifle and a responsible licensed owner.
Most people are, but some things genuinely are for the common good and I believed the changes we made were and so relinquished my gun.

I find it staggering that the defence of gun ownership is that the licenced guy shot the offender, if the nutjob didn't have the weapon in first place no-one dies...

[Mack]

I still feel as though people dont see that the people that want to hurt lots of people will find a way.. did you know that some of the USA's government officials are going to court over suspected illegal gun sales to some of whom the nation kind of considers an enemy, or are some of those who declared war upon the USA

[Mack]

I find it staggering that the defence of gun ownership is that the licenced guy shot the offender, if the nutjob didn't have the weapon in first place no-one dies...

Untill they see that rock in the road
Or the knife in thier pocket
Or when they get back in thier car
Or man this bat coulld really do some damage
Could just choke them
Maybe the tire iron
A simple push toward that car coming down the road
Could simply beat them to death...........

Dont forget this stuff really does happen everyday already

If they want to killl they will

The only thing a gun ban would do is inpower the druglords

That sounds like a grand idea

ALL HAIL EL CHAPO... of the day anyway

[DezNutz]

I find it staggering that the defence of gun ownership is that the licenced guy shot the offender, if the nutjob didn't have the weapon in first place no-one dies...

Oh you mean the nutjob that was still able to acquire a firearm even though legally he was banned from owning one? Yes that's right, the Texas Church Shooter could not legally own a firearm in the USA, because he was convicted of domestic violence and had a Bad Conduct Discharge from the armed services. The existing gun control laws didn't stop him from obtaining a firearm. Gun laws don't stop criminals. Take a look at Chicago, IL. It has one of the most strict gun control laws in the nation, but they lead the nation in gun related violence.