TRUMP 2020!

[Meliva]

Oh by the way Pheonix gave some great examples of Trump being bad.

Let’s see, dividing the people, encouraging violence and racism, violating election laws by inviting and seeking foreign intervention, constantly lying even when there is proof he is lying, corruption, undermining the US position globally in more than one avenue, ruining relationships with allies and recognition of hostiles as friends, undermining intelligence reports, impeding investigations, did not put his money into a blind trust, making NDAs and swearing loyalty as a condition to work in the government, not getting any fact straight, passing a tax law that will benefit the rich and only the rich get to keep its benefits in another 4 years but everyone else get it doubled, attacking the media that is protected by the first amendment, inciting violence against opposition, double standards in treatment of the same things based on political gain and racial profiling, financial gains from his political office, holding off WHO finds during a pandemic, not recognizing the role of federal government in fighting pandemic and telling governors fight for resources, calling protests against republican governors as riots but encourages ones against democratic ones, visiting a mask factory without a mask causing an entire day of production to be discarded and the factory to be resanitized, declining to do anything about the pandemic till the end of March while dismissing it at every turn ..., shall I continue?

You know Blue, parroting other people isn't exactly a good way to debate, especially if you don't know both sides. But I'll refute some of these points.

First off-the people were already badly divided before trump even was elected-, and many of those on the losing side have spent the entire 4 years constantly undermining him. 2nd, he's done a far better job ending violence then the democrats, who have let rioters loose on cities, while trump has been using federal agents to get them off the streets. As for lying, yeah can't deny that, he does lie, though to be fair, very few politicians are fully honest. Though he has done a fairly good job on keeping his promises.
The US is in a better position globally, because he's started taking deals and alliances we had that were far more beneficial to our ally then us, and forcing them to either make the deal more fair, or dropping the deal.

Why should he put his money into a blind trust? No other president has been asked to do this, why should he? He also has not attacked the media. Unless you consider calling them fake news attacks, which, given how badly they constantly smear him, I think it's perfectly fine. He has a right to say his opinion, and if he feels many of the news stations are fake news he can say so. Just like they can say what they want about him.

Most presidents finacially gain from being in office. The Obamas gained from it even. It's not like he's gaining from it at the expense of the country. He did hold funds from WHO, though considering the horrid job they did at dealing with China, I feel like they no longer deserve our funds if they can't effectively deal with China just because they were scared or some other reason.

He also told the local governments to try to handle it themselves, and if they needed federal aid to ask. If they didn't ask due to pride, or because they felt they could do better and failed, that's on them. Just like how it's on folks like Lightfoot the damage that's been done because they didn't want to ask for federal help.

Trump issued the China ban when many of the opposition criticized him for it saying he was overreacting, how he was racist, how it wasn't that big a deal, then when we realized how bad the virus was, the same opposition flipped and said he didn't do enough, that he should have acted sooner, etc.

hindsight is 2020. No one knew just how bad this virus was, largely due to china keeping it as quiet as possible until it was too late. Sure it's easy to look back and say if we did X here it wouldn't be so bad, but it's not as easy to do that looking forward.

Trump has some flaws, sure, I don't agree with everything he does, and I do think he's an arsehole. I don't think he's a bad person or president. He's done a pretty good job so far.

[Leo]

I actually didn't post Phoenix's post to use it as a talking point, rather that Draque said we could never give any examples so i was showing him the examples that Phoenix made.

I don't know, the people were always divided, but Trump definitely didn't help with that. That's all i'm going to say for that.

Ending violence, sure, whatever. I mean you already know how I feel about the rioters, that it was a necessary evil because change needed to happen and that peaceful protesting didn't work for that issue the past hundred years. That being said I didn't take part in the riots but did take part in the protests.

You are right that most politicians lies. I think the reason that Trump is the outlier comes with the way he lies, the fact that it's almost like he isn't trying to hide them.

Blind trust? I have no idea about that one. I heard about it when it happened but upon looking it up I couldn't find any sources about presidents putting their money into blind trusts.

Trump IS gaining from this presidency, and it IS often at the expense of the country. For instance before COVID he would fly to and from Mar-a-Lago every weekend. Who paid for that? The taxpayers of course! He sent his son to an out-of-state private school that required him to take a plan to and from DC every week. And I think you can fill in the blanks for who payed for that. And Trump often insisted on holding foreign affairs meetings at Mar-a-Lago, and the people would have to pay to get in. Trump owns Mar-a-Lago, so the money went straight to him.

Anyway if republicans want tax cuts so bad maybe they should tell Trump to stop wasting tax money on his personal interests. Then there would be some left over and they would be happy.

As for COVID, he's getting a lot of crap from people. Honestly I don't think another president would have done the right things either. However, encouraging people to inject Lysol? That's out of the question. That should be a red flag to everyone that this man should not be Trusted when it comes to COVID.

[Meliva]

I actually didn't post Phoenix's post to use it as a talking point, rather that Draque said we could never give any examples so i was showing him the examples that Phoenix made.

I don't know, the people were always divided, but Trump definitely didn't help with that. That's all i'm going to say for that.

Ending violence, sure, whatever. I mean you already know how I feel about the rioters, that it was a necessary evil because change needed to happen and that peaceful protesting didn't work for that issue the past hundred years. That being said I didn't take part in the riots but did take part in the protests.

You are right that most politicians lies. I think the reason that Trump is the outlier comes with the way he lies, the fact that it's almost like he isn't trying to hide them.

Blind trust? I have no idea about that one. I heard about it when it happened but upon looking it up I couldn't find any sources about presidents putting their money into blind trusts.

Trump IS gaining from this presidency, and it IS often at the expense of the country. For instance before COVID he would fly to and from Mar-a-Lago every weekend. Who paid for that? The taxpayers of course! He sent his son to an out-of-state private school that required him to take a plan to and from DC every week. And I think you can fill in the blanks for who payed for that. And Trump often insisted on holding foreign affairs meetings at Mar-a-Lago, and the people would have to pay to get in. Trump owns Mar-a-Lago, so the money went straight to him.

Anyway if republicans want tax cuts so bad maybe they should tell Trump to stop wasting tax money on his personal interests. Then there would be some left over and they would be happy.

As for COVID, he's getting a lot of crap from people. Honestly I don't think another president would have done the right things either. However, encouraging people to inject Lysol? That's out of the question. That should be a red flag to everyone that this man should not be Trusted when it comes to COVID.

You know, at times like this I think it's a good thing MLK died. If he was alive today I'm sure it would break his heart. How can you say peaceful protests havn't worked in the last 100 years, when the civil rights era was just over half a century ago? Do people no longer get taught history? I would think every young person in America should have been taught what MLK did with PURELY peaceful protests. But yeah, try to justify the killing and destruction as a necessary evil. Try telling that to people who lost loved ones because of them. Folks who had NOTHING to do with police brutality. Disgusting anyone would call this a necessary evil.

Again, every president profits from the presidency-save for few exceptions. The Obamas profited from it even more then trump has. No one made a big deal about that. As for the Lysol thing, he said later that it was a joke. Now I admit I didn't listen to the clip where he said the comment, so I don't know if he said it in a joking way, regardless, anyone stupid enough to take that as legitimate advice, is worthy of the darwin awards frankly.

[Leo]

Martin Luther King might be ashamed but Malcolm X wouldn't be. I agree with both of them, but Malcolm X more so because he encouraged people to fight back, to defend themselves rather than just saying "peace" and walking away.

BTW, here's the video
He doesn't sound too "sarcastic" to me.

[Meliva]

Wow. He literally NEVER told people to inject lysol into themselves. He mentioned how disinfectants does a good job destroying the virus, which it should as a disinfectant, and then ASKED if there was something they could do like that to a person at his side. Then literally a minute later, he said, maybe we can maybe we can't, I'm not a doctor. Did you even watch the very clip you showed me?


Also, way to fight back, by burning down buildings and killing people who had absolutely nothing to do with what you're fighting against. Hey, maybe next time I get upset, I should just punch the first person I see. Or maybe if I lose my job, I should burn down my neighbors house.

These people are not fighting back against crap. They are burning down and killing innocent bloody people. Even if you WANTED to justify it as fighting back, then maybe you could justify attacking cops and burning down police and federal buildings, then I could give you that much that they are fighting back-still a bad thing to do, but these people are burning down and destroying places that have done nothing to them. That isn't fighting back at all.

This would be like if back in the civil rights era, the black community went out and burned down a bunch of Latino owned buildings and beat up Latino people. That isn't fighting back, that's hurting innocent bloody people. At this point, I'm starting to think you're not just naive, but ignorant as well.

[Leo]

Hey, the entire time I've been wondering why they have to burn down the irrelevant businesses. In Minneapolis a few police stations were destroyed. That's fine with me. The targets, aldis etc, I mean it isn't all that right but it's better than small businesses. When it got to the small ones I wasn't sure what to think. It's a complicated time. The thing is that people are being oppressed, have been oppressed for the longest time. And then when it continues to happen after so many protests, then of course there are going to be riots. Shortly after the riots started, I was listening to the radio. I heard a speech from one woman. She said that even though she didn't agree with the riots, this country was kinda "asking for it". Their cries had been ignored for too long, and there were warning signs that riots would happen if there wasn't action. And there wasn't action. So now we have the riots and you are complaining about them but also denying that the whole reason they happened is really a problem. If it wasn't a problem, then there wouldn't be protesters and rioters.

I'm going to show a few graphs quick to give an understanding.




Black people are 3X more likely to be killed by the police than white people, and are 1.3x as likely to be unarmed when they are killed. I believe you and dman (say, what happened to him? Did he get coronavirus?) used the argument "black people commit more crimes so it makes sense". But does that make it right that they get killed more often? Part of the reason that there is a higher crime rate for African-Americans is because they are also more likely to get arrested for a lower crime and are incarcerated for much lower crimes than white people. The media in the US specifically has painted a picture for white Americans that black people are to be feared. And that happens just by covering black murders more often. In fact, a lot of the reason that black people are killed by the police is because the police get spooked by a completely normal action like reaching for their wallet in a routine traffic stop (this is how Philando Castile died).

I don't know what area of the country you live in. But for me, living in Minneapolis, I can see this going on around me. It's hard for people that live in rural areas to understand the issue because they look around, see a bunch of white people, see the police doing their job, and assume that everything must be fine. As for me, it's hard for me to understand some of the issues that people in rural areas might take part in, like owning guns. It's a trade off. And I don't expect everyone to understand this one. It's why when I go into the northern areas of my state I see flags that say "we support our law enforcement", I can't help thinking "would they have those up if they lived where the problem is?"

Also this:


Anyway, what happened to Dman? He hasn't posted here for a few days and that's out of the ordinary. Does this mean I get to raid his ships?

[Meliva]

Yes it does, light him up. Should be a fun thing to see one way or another .

(note- i heavily recommend you do not light him up, if he is still active he will probably curbstomp you. But if you feeling brave go for it).

As for people getting killed by police, regardless of race it's a sad thing when it was uncalled for. This is not a race issue however. Sometimes people commit crimes, and when police show up do something stupid. However, if you've done nothing wrong, stay calm and don't do anything stupid, 99% of the time, you'll be just fine, regardless of your skin color. I might be white, but my parents taught me exactly what to do when dealing with cops. Don't make any sudden movements, say yes sir no sir or yes ma'am no 'ma'aam. Be honest. Be respectful and polite. Do what they say when they say it. In my youth and even in my adult years I've had a few run ins with cops. Every time, whether I was in the right or wrong, I always did what I was taught. I've never been tazed, sprayed or shot. Now if I had acted like my brother, who let our dogs out and was aggressive to the cops, I probably would have been tazed like he was.

Now yes, sometimes police do abuse their power. This is a bad thing no matter who they do it to, and is something that can be done by cops of all races and both genders. When this happens an investigation should be done, and the police who abused their power should be punished. Just like the ones who killed FLoyd were punished. Yet the riots still happened. Senseless pointless violence. It accomplishes nothing but ruining communities and killing innocent lives. How anyone can try to justify this is idiotic and vile.

[Leo]

Note: The ones who killed floyd weren't punished YET. They've only been arrested, not prosecuted. The only times that cops have been prosecuted was when it was a black cop killing a white person, never ever ever has it been the opposite. If the rest wasn't a race issue, this is where it kicks in.

[Meliva]

I wasn't aware that you personally know every single instance of every single prosecution in the entire country, as well as the races of those involved in the prosecutions. Oh wait, you don't. Unless you can pull up proof that is the case, which I am very confident that it is not, then it isn't a fact, just an opinion. Not to mention justice isn't instant. These things take time. Time to investigate, time to set up a trial, time to gather evidence, time to have the trial, then justice will hopefully be served. Now if after all that the cops in question were let go, then I would be perfectly fine with protests. Not rioting though. Rioting is idiotic. If you really want to "fight back" go to the damn cops house and burn that down. I personally still wouldn't approve, but I would at least admit they at least hit the right person. Don't go to the local target, that had nothing to do with any of it and burn that down.

I would hate to live in a world that fit your view. Where burning buildings down and killing innocent people can be justified as a necessary evil. You see that word in front of people? Innocent? Yeah, it's never justified when innocent people are harmed. That's why you use the word innocent. Free of wrongdoing. That's a literal contradiction. Innocent people should not suffer a punishment, if they do that isn't justice, it's the literal opposite.

[The Lamb]

Blue, you know none of this is true right.
You cant use some stats and not use others observe:

On Friday 20 people showed to work
10 men wore red shirts
3 men wore other colors
7 were women

So obviously men like red shirts and hate blue shirts.

Omitted information
an email went out on Thursday asking all men with kids ware red shirts for bring your kid to work day.

Reason i say this is that different sides will always cherry pick stats that favor their narrative, but as an educated person, you need to look at the whole picture.
1. What are the total deaths
2. What are the total death of whites
3. What are the total deaths of blacks
4. What is the total crimes committed by each group.
5. While these criminals were being apprehended, how many resisted arrest, ran, etc.
6. Of these who were arrested, how many who complied were killed by cops
7. Of these who resisted arrest, how many were killed.

When you actually dig into the whole picture, you may find a different story. I would like to say one thing as to something you mentioned before. Its not that you cant change my mind, I was like you when i was younger, maybe not to the extreme you are now, but in doing research, living all over the world, and growing up, i just have the experience and logic at this point in my life to see through the BS ideologies that put bad ideas in people head.

Hell a few years ago a large group of people cut off their balls waiting for a comet to come that would be hiding a space ship that would take them to their planet (heavens gate). We think its loony, cause we know better, but they truly believed it because they were taught that and didnt know better.

Im not a republican, dont just give me the same tired talking points give me a well founded argument with all the info and you could change my mind