Biden 2020

[The Lamb]

Blue you say that we should all be neighbors and take care of each other. I dont understand you. Your ok with people beating other people and burning down homes and businesses for events that have nothing to do with these people, thats ok with you, but then say we are heartless for wanting people to pay for other peoples labor.

People have the right to act and eat in healthy ways to ensure they are as healthy as possible. Healthcare is a service offered by a health care professionals labor.

No one has a right to another persons labor, we did away with slavery a long time ago. So to say that health care is a right shows a lack of understanding of goods and services verses ideologies and what rights verses needs really are.

I have a right to a maid cleaning my house, nope its a service... i have a right to free representation by lawyers, nope its a service, unless you commit a crime and cant afford one , I have a right to healthcare, nope its a service, i have a right to child care, nope its a service... these are all services provided by someone who learned how to provide these services.

And blue, your absolutely correct, you do have the right to your own opinion, and I apologize for implying otherwise. I just feel bad, someone really pumped you full of bad debunked information

[Leo]

Again, everyone should be able to live without having to pay. If you believe otherwise, well, that's kinda sad. You choose to commit a crime, therefor you need a lawyer. You choose to hire a maid. You do not choose to get a life-threatening illness. And you should know, a lot of people in poverty don't have access to healthy foods, nor can they work out in the same fashion as us privileged folks can.

Its's not like with universal healthcare the doctors stop getting paid, but they get paid by the community as a whole via taxes, not individually. And this would be a service for the common good, so I'm not sure why you are so opposed to it.

Hmm, you think that I've been pumped with foul information? Just think what people on the other side might think about you. For some reason a lot of people assume that if people have different opinions that it is because they are stupid, or just because they have the wrong information, but essentially opinions boil down to which issues you prioritize over other issues, what morals are most important to you, where you grew up, what opinions your family had, how much they talked about them, and the community in which you live.

Take Minneapolis, for example. I believe Minneapolis is about 80-85% democrat. This is because many of the conservative issues do not affect them. Now, people in rural Minnesota are about 80-85% republican. When an issue comes, the people that live in rural Minnesota will see it from a different perspective than the people who live in urban Minnesota. A few years ago, Trump held a rally in Duluth. He talked about his vision for opening up oil mining in the Superior National Forest. When I heard this, I was super mad. I didn't understand why the Northerners wanted to destroy a national forest to boost the economy. They saw new job opportunities, I saw a major negative environmental impact coming. Now I see why they held those opinions, and I don't blame them for holding them. Hopefully they see why people like me would be against it.

So before you go on with this "only my opinion is right, everybody else must be on crack" kinda thing, just think about what I just said.

[Meliva]

Blue, you need to understand that it is more or less in our nature to prioritize ourselves over other's. Ask anyone, that if they had to choose between feeding their family, or feeding their neighbors, unless that person hates their family for some reason, they will choose their family first. If you ask a man if he would rather kill and eat the family pet, or let his family starve, welp, sorry fido, most folks prefer feeding their family over a dog.

Not to mention, no one should be FORCED to help other's. That's tyrannical. I'm fine with paying taxes for certain things- road maintenance, firefighter/police funding, etc. I am not fine with my money being taken from me, and forcibly given to folks who I don't even know.

Instead of forcing folks to help other's, it's far better to incentivize them to help other's. Things like offering tax cuts for charity donations, offering criminals lesser jail time for community service etc. If you make it to where people can actually benefit from helping other's, you're going to see a LOT of goodwill being done.

On the other hand, if you decide to just force folks to help other's, that just causes disdain. No one likes being forced to do something.

[Leo]

You are already forced to help other. This would just be adding to the list. You already pay for other people's welfare. You pay for some people's healthcare, believe it or not. I'm just saying that everyone should add an anti to the pot to help everyone. And most people would probably pay less in tax then it would to pay for their own healthcare. So whatever, you say that it's bad, that's your opinion, but in MY opinion that's the way it should be. I mean the countries a that have universal healthcare aren't collapsing, they are doing fine, if not great. As I mentioned before, for some reason the US is a lot less friendly than most other countries. You know that in most other first world countries, people don't usually lock their doors? You may call it dumb, but that's not how they see it. Those same countries have access to universal healthcare most of the time. Its because as a whole they feel more part of a community, and a lot more trusting of each other than we are. I mean that's probably the reason we have so many guns, too. Everybody is much more afraid of each other here.

[Meliva]

aid should never be forced. Just because we are already having to give some money does not mean that's a good thing. A person should never be forced to do anything they do not want to do. You don't force someone to work for free-that's slavery. You do not force someone to sleep with you-that's rape. You do not force people to give money to other people-that's stealing. You can argue that "it's for a good cause" all you want. Why not just say doctors should work for free? Or work for next to nothing? That would help a lot of folks. Why not force folks with homes to let people without homes sleep on their coach?

Just because you have a good cause, or a good reason, does not excuse one's actions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. To me, one of the greatest evils one can commit is forcing other's to do something. That's robbing them of their freedom, which to me, is easily one of the most important human rights. If you want to donate money to help folks, I won't force you not to. So don't try to force me to donate my money when I don't want to.

[DezNutz]

I agree with Kim. Healthcare is a human right. It is not a privileged, and you should not have to have a certain amount of money to be saved from life-threatening diseases and injuries. Period.

Healthcare is not a human right. Healthcare is man's invention to increase longevity.

So if healthcare is a human right, what age do I have a right to live to? And if I don't reach that age, how does my family seek recompense for a violation of my rights?

[Leo]

Dez, living is a human right. If it wasn't, murder would be legal. Healthcare is part of making sure that you stay alive. You should be guaranteed good care no matter how much money you have. Wait, let me guess, you are upper-middle class?

[Meliva]

murder is illegal because someone decided to force another person to die. If I see a man starving to death, and I had food I had just bought for my family, and had to choose between letting that man starve or my family, then sorry, but I'll be taking that bread home to my loved ones. Now if I had extra food, and I could afford to spare some, then sure, I'd give the man some food if able. Now if you came up to me and demanded that I give him food, I'd tell you to feed him yourself if you care so much.

Again-forcing people to do things is idiotic, and wrong. Instead of trying to force folks to bend to your will and do what you want, provide incentives. It's much better for all involved if all aid is given willingly. The folks giving the aid won't feel like they were just robbed and were given a choice and the folks getting the aid can sleep easy knowing that the aid was given willingly and not taken,

[Leo]

I think we have entered a loop and killed this topic. No progress has really taken place, and both of us have been saying the same thing. Hate to say this, but I guess we will just have to agree to disagree

[Mack]

TRUMP2020!