TRUMP 2020!

[Dmanwuzhere]

I don't put words into your mouth, so I would appreciate if you don't put words into mine.

Did I say china was the only country that has child labor? No. Child labor is a horrible thing that does happen in many places. Those places need to enact laws to protect said children and enforce them. China is one of the ones who is guilty of not protecting children from unfair labor.

As for prison labor, I don't mind if prisoners are made to do safe labor, though I don't approve of them being forced into dangerous jobs like firefighting. Though I will also say that prison labor is a far less of a problem then child labor. Prisoners wouldn't have to do cheap labor if they didn't commit crimes.

I don't think the USA is perfect, or unflawed or the best at everything period. It has flaws, like any nation. Now how about instead of shifting focus and talking about things that I never even mention, you address some of my points.

The Chinese have censored a lot of speech and used things like tariffs on countries that wanted to investigate. Do you not agree that is a very vile thing to do, and is very suspicious? Now I don't believe that the virus was made by them in a lab, or anything extreme like that, but I do certainly think that they tried very hard to keep it secret, and gave some bad information which helped lead to the pandemic growing.

lol you cant put much faith in some folks
the inmates working as firefighters do so on a voluntary basis
the volunteers cant have violent criminal charges but in exchange for their help they recieve the ability to become professional firefighters once released (this clears their record) assuming they want to become one
although the inmates volunteer for the program they still get paid 2-5 bucks a day plus 1 buck an hour while on a fire
and since the state picks up all housing food clothing and medical it seems extremely fair to me
you can read up on it by searching ab2147 its the newest reform of the program

to compare inmate labor to child labor was a bit assinine as they are no way the same
you just have to look over some people

[Leo the Conqueror]

The Chinese have censored a lot of speech and used things like tariffs on countries that wanted to investigate. Do you not agree that is a very vile thing to do, and is somewhat suspicious?

Ooh, this is my favorite political subject.

Mel, everything about the Chinese government is suspicious. Xi Jinping is a 100% psychopath.

I would say that censoring is a pretty horrible thing to do.

On the topic of child labor, this is where 'ol Mustache got his brains.

A lot of stuff that we buy, use and depend upon was made not only with child labor, but what I would argue is essentially slavery. Batteries (cobalt), chocolate, coffee, fruit. Most of it is made with cheap child labor, usually in 3rd-world African countries. The main culprits are The Ivory Coast, Ghana, and a few other west African countries. The governments are extremely corrupt and own a lot of the plantations that use child labor.

Since so much of what we buy is made using child labor, I chose to boycott only one of them: chocolate. It and coffee are probably the most well-known for using child labor often.

Most chocolate you find at the grocery store will have had used child labor in the process. That means Hershey, Nestle, Dove, and almost all name brand chocolates. I will still eat them, but I will not buy them.

The main reason that I chose to boycott specifically chocolate, is that the big companies are very aware that their cocoa producers use child labor. Hershey's has made several commitments saying that they would stop using it by year x. First it was 2006, then when they didn't achieve that they pushed it back. And pushed it back again. And again. Now the promise is by the end of 2020. The US government has stated that they will be forced to sue Hershey's if they do not end it by the end of 2020.

But they have broke their promises too many times, so I doubt their chocolate will be slave-free anytime in the next 5 years.

So I buy from chocolate companies that are dedicated fair-trade like Equal Exchange, Tony's Chocolonely, and Alter-eco. Look for brands that are certified fair trade.

[Meliva]

Good to know we have some common ground LM . Why, I bet even Dman and Mack would agree with you on your china opinion .

Also thanks for the added info Dman. I looked into it a little when it was brought up, and from what I learned and with your added comment, I can honestly say that it sounds like a wonderful program. Though, if anyone wishes to provide sources that claim and provide evidence otherwise, I'll gladly read them.

[Lachlan]

Chinese use child labour? Get a grip : who do you think made your trainers? Child labour is endemic across the world and not restricted to any one political system. Prison labour? Yep, chinese prisoners are used as cheap labour. But go google who works as emergency firefighters in California.. yep, prison labour. They aont in the chain-gang anymore but using prisoners as cheap labour is common across the world, US included.
The WHO did not declare an emergency? Why not blame the Lebanon for that? Or Australia? Its an international organisation and like most, aint perfect and is riddled with political chicanery. But that only seems to be a problem when they dont do as they are told by the US. A bit like NATO which gets pushed from pillar to post to please US domestic politics.

US exceptionalism is the disease which will bring down US influence in the world. It undermines any good done and accentuates those times when policy is enforced just to suit US domestic needs. But that is what happens to any Empire. It rises, stagnates then loses the vision that once drove it, it turns inwards and concerns itself with its petty internal strife then almost unnoticed, it slips over the edge and down it slides in a spiral of self-defeating hubris.

Manifest Destiny is not tied to any one nation, nor is it eternal and permanent. If it was the Romans would still be Numero Uno.

The USA had great promise, noble ideals and was gifted with the natural resources to grow into a powerhouse. Unfortunately it decided waste those gifts on fripperies and nonsenses.

Ozymandias would smile.

who is Ozymandias?

[Meliva]

google says its a poem about the fleeting nature of power.

Honestly rather irrelevant for him to mention it, along with manifest destiny, and his opinion on the state of the USA, when I never mentioned any of those things, and much of what I did mention he glossed over/ignored, while putting words into my mouth.

At this point, I think he is arguing for the sake of arguing, and maybe trying to make himself sound smart and educated. Though that is just my opinion at this point, I might be crazy, but I'm no psychic, I can only guess at his reasoning and motivations. He is more then free to argue against my opinion and try to prove me wrong on any of my points.

It's not like I even argue that the US isn't going to remain an eternal superpower that will never decline. I fully expect it to someday, like every other superpower in history to wither, decay and lose it's status. Or even if by some miracle it holds onto it, the earth will die someday, and I have little hope of us colonizing other planets before then, so once it goes, the US goes with it.

My main argument is that China has done a lot of shady things in regards to this virus, and has many policies and practices that are honestly vile. Don't know why he want's to argue about the US not going to be eternally powerful or that other places have child labor and prison labor with me.

[Argo]

Kim - copy the word you want clarified and paste it in your google browser

"Ozymandias" is the title of two related sonnets published in 1818. The first was written by the English Romantic poet Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792–1822) and was published in the 11 January 1818 issue of The Examiner of London.

Easy.

lol
-Im not sure I fully understand the reference either (maybe if I read the poems I might) - but I do like all those fancy words..

[Lachlan]

Kim - copy the word you want clarified and paste it in your google browser

"Ozymandias" is the title of two related sonnets published in 1818. The first was written by the English Romantic poet Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792–1822) and was published in the 11 January 1818 issue of The Examiner of London.

Easy.

lol
-Im not sure I fully understand the reference either (maybe if I read the poems I might) - but I do like all those fancy words..

oh yeah I did do that but I thought that might be the wrong thing he was referring to because it didn't fit what he said and seemed a bit random

[Most Lee Harmless]

Mel : you are not the only one I am responding to and no, I am not responding to every point line by line from several different posters.

I'm giving my view of the same world events as you are and commenting on the whys and wherefores of them as I see them.

'Ozymandias' is a reference, from my youth and not that classical an education, a shorthand for hubris and vainglory. Poetry aint exclusive, you know, anyone can enjoy it.

If you refer to some-ones 'Achilles heel' to mean a weakness or soft spot, you are doing the same thing, using a shorthand cultural reference.

I am surprised that 'Ozymandias' seems obscure, being widely quoted as part of a Breaking Bad season. Guess some folk prefer Walt Whitman to poor old Percy.

[Meliva]

never watched breaking bad at all, and this be the first I've heard of this poem. I might read it sometime. Though, I do think that "Achilles heel" is a far more common reference then Ozymandias. If a person does not get a reference, then that ends up adding a bit of confusion.

Also apologies for thinking you were mostly replying to me. A bit hard to tell sometimes with text. I can't see who you are looking at when you talk, so when the first thing you say is in response to something I've said, and you do not address a second person, I assumed it was all directed at me. A sad effect of talking through text, so much can be lost in communication when you don't have things like Tone, body language, eye contact etc.

[Lachlan]

Mel : you are not the only one I am responding to and no, I am not responding to every point line by line from several different posters.

I'm giving my view of the same world events as you are and commenting on the whys and wherefores of them as I see them.

'Ozymandias' is a reference, from my youth and not that classical an education, a shorthand for hubris and vainglory. Poetry aint exclusive, you know, anyone can enjoy it.

If you refer to some-ones 'Achilles heel' to mean a weakness or soft spot, you are doing the same thing, using a shorthand cultural reference.

I am surprised that 'Ozymandias' seems obscure, being widely quoted as part of a Breaking Bad season. Guess some folk prefer Walt Whitman to poor old Percy.

ok I have no idea what breaking bad is I think I need a full paragraph long explanation for me to understand lol