TRUMP 2020!

[Leo]

No, half of those were straw man arguments.

1. Yes, internet can keep them in contact with family and friends, but that's not the same as actually being with them.

2. Job opportunities might be equal, but they might be happy with the job they have and don't want to leave it, maybe because of the people they work with.

3. People come here for many reasons. Maybe they have heard rumors of how great the US is. Maybe they were fleeing danger and didn't have many options. Who knows?

4. I'm not sure what your point is. A good rule of thumb is don't get angry at people for not knowing English, especially if you don't know a second language yourself.

5. I have 5 basses, a piano and two full drum sets . No way in hell would I be able to move all of that to Switzerland. Also note that you probably wouldn't be able to take your ARs to a lot of these countries, as they are illegal.

[Leo]

Also I would like to say that I think people in European countries probably think that Americans are stupid

[DezNutz]

No, half of those were straw man arguments.

1. Yes, internet can keep them in contact with family and friends, but that's not the same as actually being with them.

2. Job opportunities might be equal, but they might be happy with the job they have and don't want to leave it, maybe because of the people they work with.

3. People come here for many reasons. Maybe they have heard rumors of how great the US is. Maybe they were fleeing danger and didn't have many options. Who knows?

4. I'm not sure what your point is. A good rule of thumb is don't get angry at people for not knowing English, especially if you don't know a second language yourself.

5. I have 5 basses, a piano and two full drum sets . No way in hell would I be able to move all of that to Switzerland. Also note that you probably wouldn't be able to take your ARs to a lot of these countries, as they are illegal.

You don't know what a Strawman is.

1. So all the people that immigrate to the US shouldn't immigrate to the US unless they can bring their whole family? That's not how it works. There are hundreds of thousands of people who leave their families for a better life in the hope they can establish themselves and bring their family over later. Your argument is not a valid reason why people don't leave.

2. If the opportunities are equal, how does this fit into your "moving somewhere better" argument.

3. If America isn't so great, why haven't you left for a better country?

4. You said that American don't want to learn a foreign language. That isn't true in the least. Language is not a reason not to move to a better place.

5. Wrong. You can bring your instruments you just have to pay for them to be shipped over. People take personal possessions all the time. Their jobs require them to relocate to a foreign country and they take their stuff with them. Ah, the 2nd Amendment. Yes, please explain to me how your ability to own a firearm in the USA is not better than other countries?

[Leo]

It appeared that you were putting words in my mouth.

Just because some people are willing to leave their family does not mean that everyone or most people will want to.

I never said that the ability to own a firearm is worse than other countries. I was just pointing it out.

This is a counterproductive argument. I'm not sure if you actually believe what you are arguing for or if you just feel the need to disagree with me on everything I say.

I'm done now.

[DezNutz]

It appeared that you were putting words in my mouth.

Just because some people are willing to leave their family does not mean that everyone or most people will want to.

I never said that the ability to own a firearm is worse than other countries. I was just pointing it out.

This is a counterproductive argument. I'm not sure if you actually believe what you are arguing for or if you just feel the need to disagree with me on everything I say.

I'm done now.

I'm not putting words in your mouth:

I, for one, would love to live in a European country. But there are a few things that are holding everyone back from just moving somewhere better.

1. They have a life here, and wouldn't want to abandon it just to get the benefits of those countries.

2. They have a job, and moving would require them to quit.

3. Immigration is a long and dreadful process which often takes years.

4. Americans are too lazy to learn a foreign language. We think of learning a second language as a hard task worth noting when someone does. But in most other countries people regularly learn 2nd, 3rd, and 4th languages like it's no big deal. Most Americans are most comfortable when they don't have to put any effort into talking.

5. If you move to a different country, you can't take many things with you.

I think we should model ourselves after a system that is even parts successful for all and ambitious. Ambition is important for making real progress, and without it we would be stuck in an endless cycle. That is part of the reason that I hold what many people call "unreasonable" beliefs, and set "unrealistic" goals.

EDIT: America refers to two entire continents, not just the US! I wish we had a real demonym for ourselves, other than American. In Spanish there is the word "Estadounidense" which basically means "United Statesian"

[Leo]

I, for one, would love to live in a European country. But there are a few things that are holding everyone back from just moving somewhere better.

1. They have a life here, and wouldn't want to abandon it just to get the benefits of those countries.

2. They have a job, and moving would require them to quit.

3. Immigration is a long and dreadful process which often takes years.

4. Americans are too lazy to learn a foreign language. We think of learning a second language as a hard task worth noting when someone does. But in most other countries people regularly learn 2nd, 3rd, and 4th languages like it's no big deal. Most Americans are most comfortable when they don't have to put any effort into talking.

5. If you move to a different country, you can't take many things with you.

I think we should model ourselves after a system that is even parts successful for all and ambitious. Ambition is important for making real progress, and without it we would be stuck in an endless cycle. That is part of the reason that I hold what many people call "unreasonable" beliefs, and set "unrealistic" goals.

1. This is the 21st Century. They have internet, facebook, twitter, tiktok, clubs, concerts, sporting events, etc. in foreign countries. Are you saying they can't have a life over their that's equal to here?

2. Are you saying that the job opportunities outside of the USA are not as good as those in the USA?

3. Well duh. It is the same for coming here. It takes years to become a US Citizen. Yet people still come.

4. Americans don't like being forced to learn a foreign language, especially to benefit a non-citizen in our country. To be naturalized as a US Citizen, you have to be able to pass a test that's in English. People will learn the language if they want to move.

5. First, that's not entirely true. And I guess the country must not be worth moving to if they don't allow you take your stuff.


To sum up what you said. Americans won't leave America because America is better.

Looks like putting words in my mouth to me.

[DezNutz]

Your words: "here are a few things that are holding everyone back from just moving somewhere better."

Your words: "They have a life here, and wouldn't want to abandon it just to get the benefits of those countries."

My words: Are you saying they can't have a life over their that's equal to here?

How is that putting words in your mouth. If your life in your "better" country is not as good as the life you have here. It isn't a better country.

Your words: "They have a job, and moving would require them to quit."

My words: "Are you saying that the job opportunities outside of the USA are not as good as those in the USA?"

Hey genius. A better country would have the same or better job opportunities. So quitting your job would not be a problem, unless finding a job in your "better" country is difficult due to a lack of job opportunities. Thus it would not be better.


My words: To sum up what you said. Americans won't leave America because America is better.

A summation of what you wrote. Americans won't leave if the life they have isn't better than what they have in America, the jobs elsewhere are not equal and as readily available as in America, immigrating takes time, they have learn a new language, and have to pay to move their shit.

As such. Americans won't leave American because there is nothing better.

[Leo]

Not necessarily. Have you lived in every single country? I think not. Therefor you cannot say that America is the best country.

And again, people might want to move but it's too much of a hassle to wait for their app to be accepted and to move all their belongings.

A better country isn't just about how easy it is to get a job.

[DezNutz]

Not necessarily. Have you lived in every single country? I think not. Therefor you cannot say that America is the best country.

And again, people might want to move but it's too much of a hassle to wait for their app to be accepted and to move all their belongings.

A better country isn't just about how easy it is to get a job.

Strawman.

Using your logic:

Have you lived in another country? I doubt it. What countries have you been a citizen of? Guess you don't know if those other countries are better, because you have never lived there.



Fact. No other country provides the freedoms that America does on the scale that America does. When you can prove otherwise, then I will accept that there may be a better country.

[Haron]

Best countries to live in 2020, according to the UN (the Human Development Report):

1: Norway
2: Switzerland
3: Australia
4: Ireland
5: Germany
6: Iceland
7: Sweden
8: Hong Kong
9: Singapore
10: The Netherlands

A little strange to count Hong Kong as a "country", perhaps, but still.